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Author Topic: Hermaphrodites  (Read 5982 times)

Starmantis

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Hermaphrodites
« on: April 02, 2012, 03:18:36 pm »

A stupid, simple, idea. Hermaphrodite should be a tag that when added to a creature makes it both male and female, good for snails and snailmen
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2012, 04:41:09 pm »

... and worms and sponges, and possibly plant-creatures, as well.

I guess this could be easy-ish to implement in theory - you'd basically just consider them females that simply need any other member of their species on the map to trigger pregnancy (or just search for two of that creature type), provided they are in the same caste, although it might get... very strange if you apply this to a caste amidst other castes that have male or female tags. 

Which is presumably part of the reason that Toady has not done this already (aside from presumably not caring about the mating habits of worms in general)... although making [HERMAPHRODITIC] creature-level and overriding of other gender tokens might solve the problem in a simple solution, as that prevents caste-level redefinitions so that if any member of the species is a hermaphrodite, all creatures of the species are hermaphrodites. 

Otherwise, there might be strange implications for if someone decides to make a third civ species (I.E. dwarf) caste of hermaphrodites, and how that would play out in terms of the marriage mechanics.



There is also the issue of self-fertilization.  Some creatures shield themselves from self-fertilization, but some creatures, and I believe this applies mostly to plants, are capable of fertilizing themselves, and have no particular defenses against that. 

If we are going to talk about hermaphrodites being added and self-fertilization, as well, though, there's also the matter of parthenogenesis, which is where females' eggs functionally self-fertilize.  (Which is technically not the same as a hermaphrodite fertilizing their own eggs, it's purely the eggs own self-fertilization.)  Parthenogenesis is extremely rare among vertebrates, but common among invertebrates such as insects, as well as, again, some plants.   

As the wikipedia article shows, there's actually a species of lizard that is all-female, and parthenogenesis-based.  They technically aren't clones, as there is genetic variation based upon the way in which the genetics of eggs are already pseudo-randomized in meiosis.  (Unless the eggs were produced in mitosis, in which case, they are clones.  WHEE! Complication!)

A queen bee will also lay eggs that self-fertilize if she has access to no drones to sexually fertilize her.  These will be male, due to the way bees use chromosomes in a different manner than our standard "XY" system of chromosomes.

Isn't it funny how a little bit of facts and knowledge can turn even the simplest of things complicated?  Nature is so much Fun.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 04:45:12 pm by NW_Kohaku »
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King Mir

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 05:30:19 pm »

There are a number of species that don't fit the male female classification as implimented in the game. The way to aproach the issue, IMO, is on an as needed basis. Whenever a species is added to the game that doesn't fit the existing caste system, the system should be expanded to allow for the special case.

Toady reciently finished the animal sponcership drive, but has said that for some of the animals he would have liked to do more. More complicated genders would be an example of such a change. So if there is a specific animal that's in the game that doesn't accurately model it's mating behavior, it's worth pointing it out so that the change could eventually be made. Eventually will be a long time though.

Adding new animals are an even lower priority than that.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 06:17:58 pm »

Adding new animals are an even lower priority than that.

Nobody is talking about adding new animals; Snails, slugs, worms, and sponges all exist already.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
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King Mir

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 07:39:49 pm »

That was in there for compleatness.

peskyninja

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 04:32:17 pm »

Adding new animals are an even lower priority than that.

Nobody is talking about adding new animals; Snails, slugs, worms, and sponges all exist already.
And we don't need hermaphrodite animals in the vannila version of DF, a working tag system would suffice.
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martinuzz

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 04:43:37 pm »

UristMcVeryThirsty cancels drink: river sucked dry by giant spongeplosion

Also, breed sponges for training dummies

+1 to hermaphrodites.

EDIT: IIRC, sponges aren't hermaphrodite. They just clone themselves.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:47:09 pm by martinuzz »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2012, 04:46:13 pm »

UristMcVeryThirsty cancels drink: river sucked dry by giant spongeplosion

Which would, amusingly enough, air-drown them all and kill them off for you.

And we don't need hermaphrodite animals in the vannila version of DF, a working tag system would suffice.

Could you explain what you mean by this?  What do you consider "a working tag system"? 

(And technically, animals in vanilla DF already are hermaphrodites, they just aren't represented in the game as such.)
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knutor

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 10:18:41 pm »

Snail Men... Wouldn't that have to be renamed somehow for the sake of clarity.  I was always fond of monster instead of men. 

A Snail monster is oozing your way. Hurry, get the power washer to clean the goo covered roads.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 10:26:25 pm »

What's the word you use for hermaphrodites, then?

Snail Shman? Snail Feman? Snail Oman?
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
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dizzyelk

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 10:55:31 pm »

What's the word you use for hermaphrodites, then?

Snail Shman? Snail Feman? Snail Oman?

"ACH! ARCHERS TO THE WALLS! THE SNAIL SHMEN ARE COMING!"

Don't mind me, it just made me chuckle.
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Radiant_Phoenix

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 11:12:12 pm »

Just make it a result of adding both [MALE] and [FEMALE] to a creature.

Alternatively, make it possible to define cross-species breeding and its products in the raws, such as with mules.
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Sus

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 01:03:33 am »

What's the word you use for hermaphrodites, then?

Snail Shman? Snail Feman? Snail Oman?
Snail person, duh. :P
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2012, 07:11:30 am »

One "simple" solution might be to add a [REPRODUCES_BY_FISSION] token or somesuch, then worry about hermaphrodites that don't self-fertilize once we know how it'll work.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Hermaphrodites
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2012, 05:05:49 pm »

Snail person, duh. :P

Awww, but that's not as funny!

You shmucky shman, you!
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
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