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Author Topic: Minecraft - Mods Thread  (Read 983399 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4515 on: October 29, 2013, 11:29:11 am »

Huh. Interesting. I'll have to look around and see if I can find anything on this. Because that's really annoying.
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Max White

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4516 on: October 29, 2013, 04:26:57 pm »

Some of them seem like alright people. I've only interacted with Mithion in his threads asking questions about the mods or submitting bugs. XCompWiz is a nice guy who doesn't even bother with the forums much for all the egotistical bullshit that goes on...

There are nice MC modders, but the douchebags really stick out. I think it has something to do with being self taught programmers, a strangely high amount of them being pretty annoying people.

Putnam

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4517 on: October 29, 2013, 04:29:34 pm »

It's probably more the environment. The forums don't just ignore behavior like that, it practically encourages it.

I would go on a rant about why mod copyright is bullshit again, but you've heard that already.

One of these days I'm going to make a Minecraft mod, copyright it, have a friend copy the code, sue him for some minor amount, then record how it got thrown out of court and laugh.

dragonshardz

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4518 on: October 29, 2013, 04:48:12 pm »

Some of them seem like alright people. I've only interacted with Mithion in his threads asking questions about the mods or submitting bugs. XCompWiz is a nice guy who doesn't even bother with the forums much for all the egotistical bullshit that goes on...

There are nice MC modders, but the douchebags really stick out. I think it has something to do with being self taught programmers, a strangely high amount of them being pretty annoying people.

This is true, there's actually a lot of pretty awesome guys in the modding scene. But the likes of Flowerchild, Sengir, CJ, Greg, and Lexmanos (not to mention everyone else who follows the HOLY COPYRIGHT argument) really ruin a lot of it.

Max White

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4519 on: October 29, 2013, 04:54:20 pm »

Well as a programmer I can see why they would want to have a claim to their work... But in context the way they go about it is a bit of a dick move, especially in regards to planned incompatibility. Any sort of engineers union that takes programmers would make you sign a code of conduct saying you won't pull that shit, so it is very unprofssional.

I wish I was one of the people with some great influence over Forge, I would copyright the API and demand royalties from any modder that wanted to use it without making their mod copyright free and open source.  :P

Putnam

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4520 on: October 29, 2013, 05:09:31 pm »

The copyright is entirely based on illegal reverse-engineered code. They have no right.

I should start lobbying for the eventual modding API for minecraft to be licensed under some copyleft.

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4521 on: October 29, 2013, 05:26:54 pm »

If I write code that works with Doom 3, it doesn't mean I own Doom 3 but it also doesn't mean someone else owns my code. Similarly, I don't see why a Minecraft modder doesn't own the code he wrote.

That said, these people should all realize mods for Minecraft will never make money except through maybe donations or crowdsourcing, so don't consider time spent making a mod as investment in a valuable IP. They're not making the next Counterstrike. If anything they're just enriching Mojang by making Minecraft into something more people want to play.

People just need to chill out. So much drama out of modding communities. "He stole my blanket", "It's my turn on the swings", "I need a nap."

Man.
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Putnam

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4522 on: October 29, 2013, 05:54:50 pm »

It's not about ownership, it's about saying legally that you own this code that is based off code that is stolen (in legal terms) from Mojang AB.

Max White

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4523 on: October 29, 2013, 06:48:39 pm »

Do they? Most mods these days just plug straight into forge, with no decompiling required.
I'm not sure about more advanced mods and how they go about their business, but between modloader, forge and GUI APIs it seems you could make a reasonable mod without ever having looked at the minecraft code.

Graknorke

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4524 on: October 29, 2013, 08:24:23 pm »

Ah, the amount of modders I've seen who think the law's on their side. It's funny to watch.
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Putnam

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4525 on: October 29, 2013, 08:43:10 pm »

Do they? Most mods these days just plug straight into forge, with no decompiling required.

Hmm. I'm not sure if there's been any legal talk about code-built-on-code-built-on-decompiled-code, but it still sounds sketchy, no?

Max White

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4526 on: October 30, 2013, 10:25:52 pm »

So taking bets on how long before we have mods for 1.7.2...

Dakorma

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4527 on: October 31, 2013, 03:26:40 am »

This sounds like a really silly and unfounded accusation. Do you have any reasoning why railcraft's author would do this?

Well, for one, CovertJaguar really really likes the idea of DRM in mods. Primarily in, duh, Railcraft - he introduced a DRM kind of thing that other people eventually patched out. CovertJaguar, SirSengir, and GregoriousT are the kind of people who would do such a thing where if you install their mod alongside a mod they personally dislike, their mod proceeds to fuck with your game. Why do I say this? Because they're done things like that before:

  • CovertJaguar implemented DRM inside Railcraft that would check other mods to see if they'd been modified by other mods and promptly crash your game if so. That is: Railcraft would check, say, RedPower2 to see if it had been modified by a fan-made patch for a bug Eloraam hadn't fixed, and then crash the game.
  • SirSengir implemented a function inside Forestry that would query what directory it was inside, and if it was inside the directories used by the Technic Launcher, the mod would proceed to spawn bees that destroyed your world. He did this because the Technic Pack at the time had included Forestry without asking him, and he didn't even bother to ask for it to be removed, just decided "Fuck the user!".
  • GregoriousT has had, for a long time, code inside GregTech to crash your game if it is inside directories used by the Technic Launcher - which has necessitated either third-party patching or putting the modpack somewhere else in your filesystem. He's also added code to generally humiliate other modders, as well as deliberately creating incompatibilities with other mods and then blaming the other mod.

If that's true, then that's just plainly being a jerk.
However it's understandable if he/she dosn't want the mod to be dependent on too many other mods, whenever an update is released.
It's not a matter of being dependent on other mods, it's a matter of "I don't like this mod or the mod's creator, so if you the user decide to use this mod alongside my mod, fuck you." It's a very passive-aggressive attempt at censorship and trying to control how John Q. User plays his game. It comes with a mindset where your personal vision of what Minecraft should be is paramount over everything else, and everyone else has to abide by that or get fucked. It's very egotistical and focused more on self-aggrandizement than on simply making something fun and interesting.

TLDR: Minecraft modders are terrible people.

E: If you can't tell, I really, really, really dislike these guys and the way they try to control how other people have fun.

Yes and all of this just goes to show how much the Minecraft folks don't care about enforcing their terms of service, Specifically these portions,

Under essential requirements;

NOT be unlawful, deceptive, obscene, harmful or disparaging

NOT adversely affect the Minecraft Brand or Minecraft Assets

Under Minecraft Terms of Service

Section What you Can Do

"If you've bought the game, you may play around with it and modify it. We'd appreciate it if you didn't use this for griefing."

Under Mojang Terms of Service

If you make any content available on or through our Game, you must give us permission to use, copy, modify and adapt that content. This permission must be irrevocable, and you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content. If you don‘t want to give us this permission, do not make content available on or through our Game. Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like.


END SECTIONS FORBIDDING WHAT THEY DID.

BEGIN SECTIONS ABOUT HOW ESSENTIALLY FORGE and MCP CAN'T BE LEGAL UNDER MOJANGS GENERAL TOS.

"Do not redistribute our games or any alterations of our game files."--This means that Forge's Class Modifications fall under the ToS violation area.



You can't "try to make money from anything we‘ve made... (unless we specifically agree it – such as in brand and asset usage guidelines) "--The brand and usage guidelines don't cover mods making money, only YouTube videos, meaning ad.Fly links are a nono.

"Beyond that, you are not basically allowed to copy, reverse engineer or decompile our Game." -- This means that projects like the MCP and Forge which rely on decompiling and/or reverse engineering, fall under the nono list, as far as the Mojang Company ToS go.

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Ultimuh

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4528 on: October 31, 2013, 06:17:56 am »

So taking bets on how long before we have mods for 1.7.2...
I can safely bet that there will be mods for 1.7.2 before 2014.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Minecraft - Mods Thread
« Reply #4529 on: November 10, 2013, 08:26:54 pm »

Yeah, I went through the most recent ten pages of mod threads on the minecraft forums and picked out familiar names/things that sounded interesting. Cue three more hours of setup to get it running, but it'll be worth it, eh?

I miss doing this.

I hate doing this.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1210470
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