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Author Topic: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?  (Read 2836 times)

AzuredreamsXT

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Wondering if they are strong enough to be a one man squad to be taken out in dire circumstances.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 09:53:16 am »

Regular Dwarfs that have been put through standard training will always outperform world gen vampires.

There is a reason standard is italicized.

jaxy15

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 09:55:11 am »

Let's see here, according to the raws, vampires have NOEXERT, NOPAIN, NOBREATHE, NOSTUN, NONAUSEA, NO_DIZZINESS, NO_FEVERS, PARALYZEIMMUNE, NO_EAT, NO_DRINK, NO_SLEEP, and their physical abilities are double that of a normal dwarf's. They are WAY more powerful than your average dorf.
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AzuredreamsXT

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 09:58:04 am »

Are they more resistant to damage? Do they heal faster?

More importantly, can they be kept on a leash (figuratively speaking)? If i give it some weapons, it's own room to train in and lock the door behind it, will it just perform individual combat drills forever and skill up into a powerful warrior?

I'm thinking since it still follows orders, as long as i keep an eye on it i can utilize it as a soldier. Not feeding doesn't actually weaken them from what i read on the wiki, so that's not an issue.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 09:59:50 am by AzuredreamsXT »
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Garath

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 10:00:42 am »

pretty much yes. Bonus points to get a second one and have them sparring a lot.
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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 10:34:36 am »

Since they keep their ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT tag, they will over time become extremely slow and clumsy since they no longer drink alcohol.
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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 10:44:53 am »

They'll be absolute slaughterhouses of soldiers for the first few months (providing they were skilled) until they 'dry up' from lack of alcohol. I am pretty sure vampires are hardcoded, so you can't mod the vampire syndrome to CE_REMOVE_TAG:ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT or whatever the tag is.

miauw62

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 10:48:09 am »

They'll be absolute slaughterhouses of soldiers for the first few months (providing they were skilled) until they 'dry up' from lack of alcohol. I am pretty sure vampires are hardcoded, so you can't mod the vampire syndrome to CE_REMOVE_TAG:ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT or whatever the tag is.
They arent hard-coded, but randomly generated if im right.
Either way, you cant remove the alcohol dependant :(
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Hotaru

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 10:53:26 am »

The problem is very easy to hotfix. Simply modify dwarven blood to remove the [NO_DRINK] tag, and your vampires will chug their thirst with booze as well as bloodsucking. I don't even know how many times this has been pointed out already.
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GavJ

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 11:00:23 am »

Quote
They arent hard-coded, but randomly generated if im right.
Either way, you cant remove the alcohol dependant :(

You can't mod it out of vampires from the start, but you should be able to remove alcohol_dependent after they are generated, by exposing them to an inhalation-based (important! you dont want non-targeted dwarves getting this by accident) syndrome that includes [CE_REMOVE_TAG:ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT].

Pick a workshop and make your own recipe for it that allows a couple elements to be mixed together into a specific kind of stone that you make up.  Make the boiling point of that stone lower than room temperature and laced with syndrome.  Make the skill required to do the recipe something unique and new, and only allow vampires that skill.

That SHOULD work (never tested it - it is possible that syndromes cannot add or remove all kinds of tags, even though that one should be pretty simple to remove?  Since ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT is in the object, not the entity, it should work during a game).

If so, then the vampire will go to the station, make the new kind of stone, it will immediately explosively boil and bathe him in a cloud of magical alcohol-need-eliminating rock vapor, and you're done!  And that allows you to specifically target only the vampires.

Quote
Are they more resistant to damage? Do they heal faster?
They do not heal faster.  They are double normal dwarves only in agility, strength, and toughness.  So yes to damage resistance, and they deal more damage and move faster (all assuming non-sobriety).
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 11:02:41 am by GavJ »
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GavJ

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 11:01:42 am »

The problem is very easy to hotfix. Simply modify dwarven blood to remove the [NO_DRINK] tag, and your vampires will chug their thirst with booze as well as bloodsucking. I don't even know how many times this has been pointed out already.
That's so not in the spirit of vampires, though.

I mean ideally, they should have sobriety symptoms from not draining people, and alcohol should be unrelated, but I don't think there's any way of doing that without toady.  Alcohol being simply unrelated though is a good first step toward making more sense.  I wouldn't want to add it back in as a factor.
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Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

AzuredreamsXT

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 11:20:52 am »

Wait, if vampires obey burrow restrictions, can't i just give him his own supply of booze within his burrow? Dwarves can deliver booze to a stockpile in his territory and unless they take a nap, won't be in any danger from him. This keeps him good and liquored up
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jaxy15

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 11:28:28 am »

You can't mod it out of vampires from the start, but you should be able to remove alcohol_dependent after they are generated, by exposing them to an inhalation-based (important! you dont want non-targeted dwarves getting this by accident) syndrome that includes [CE_REMOVE_TAG:ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT].
ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT isn't a removable tag yet.
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martinuzz

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 11:32:47 am »

Wait, if vampires obey burrow restrictions, can't i just give him his own supply of booze within his burrow? Dwarves can deliver booze to a stockpile in his territory and unless they take a nap, won't be in any danger from him. This keeps him good and liquored up

The problem isn't getting booze to your vampire. The problem is vampires will never drink booze, because they never become thirsty.
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Hotaru

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Re: How much stronger in combat are vampires over regular dwarves?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2012, 11:33:51 am »

Yes. Another thing tried was making dwarf blood alcoholic, but it's not enough to make them not have alcohol withdrawal symptoms. At this time removing the [NO_DRINK] tag seems like the best possible option to fix it until Toady gets to it - a bug report has been filed.
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