Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hubris Incalculable]

Re: airship micronation: You'd better hope that the envelope never develops leaks. that would suck mondotime.

[PTTG??]

Heck, if you treat the hookers well and keep the drugs clean, then I wouldn't even call it "lesser morals".

Add child hookers, then. Child hookers make everything better.

1: I never suggested that repulsive idea.

2: Morality is not the same as legality. If your workers were consenting (as in able to give consent, as in of age, mentally competent, etc.), and you gave them good wages, medical care, protection from violence, ect., then I don't see why anyone would say that that form of prostitution is the same as some horrible Thai place.

[mainiac]

I always thought it would be interesting if every city became its own micronation.  Then people could move to whatever micronation fits their ideals best, and survival of the fittest(nation) would create some pretty interesting places to live.

More likely they would all crash and burn followed by decades of brutal fighting.  Oh and any authoritarian nations around wouldn't go along with it and would conquer you.

I mean consider the US which is pretty skimpy on the government services compared to abroad.  Consider the military.  Can you imagine a city state providing the kind of absolute protection we enjoy?  Can you imagine hundreds of city state coordinating to muster the same kind of resources?  Without the men with guns protecting everything society loses the essential promise of security that makes the modern economy happen.

Think about the basic social services.  Social security and unemployment insurance would be dicey.  The economy of a single city is much more volitile then the economy of a nation state.  The risk of default for a city state without a sovereign nation supporting it would be very noticeable.  So the safety net wouldn't exist.

This isn't even getting into the numerous trade, currency, environmental, public investment and legal complexity issues.  Read the Federalist papers sometime.  Heck, just read the constitution.  It was written because of the 13 colonies experiences with why not having a federal government running the show was FUBAR.

[Leafsnail]

I think you did pretty much describe the plot of Mortal Engines there though, except without the "cities move around and eat each other" part.  Although after we invent our indestructable self sufficient zepellins I'm sure it wouldn't be a big step to make all our cities mobile.

[IronyOwl]

I remind people that standing nations don't cotton to the idea of people making new nations.  It's a rational response, once one person proves you can do it, anybody can.

This. It's fine so long as nobody cares one way or the other, but as soon as an actual nation decides it doesn't want a place in the middle of the ocean supplying drugs, there's really nobody who's going to stop them.

I always thought it would be interesting if every city became its own micronation.  Then people could move to whatever micronation fits their ideals best, and survival of the fittest(nation) would create some pretty interesting places to live.

We already tried that in ancient times. I wouldn't say it failed, but it wasn't especially utopiaic by most reckonings.

[DJ]

You just need a nuke to ward off invasion by bigger nations. I hear they can still be found at reasonable prices in some ex-Soviet countries.

[PTTG??]

The only thing big nations like less than small nations sellin' drugs is small nations havin' nukes.

[DJ]

Yeah, but what will they do about it? Invade and get nuked? Artillery deterrence worked for North Korea all these years, as much as USA wants to topple their regime. Nukes are the same principle.

[Fenrir]

The only thing big nations like less than small nations sellin' drugs is small nations havin' nukes.

Not quite. Nuclear drugs and drugged nukes are something they like even less.

[mainiac]

Yeah, but what will they do about it? Invade and get nuked? Artillery deterrence worked for North Korea all these years, as much as USA wants to topple their regime. Nukes are the same principle.

North Korea holds the North Korean people hostage.  We don't want all that blood on our hands, especially after the fiasco in Iraq.  They also have a military.  They also have China which likes having a buffer state.

A micronation has neither of these.  If they send SWAT or even Seal Team 6 after you the only person getting hurt is you.  Or are you going to somehow sit awake 24/7 with your finger on the button?

Also, North Korea is barely a nuclear power if they are one at all.  Their nuclear test was a partial failure as they didn't achieve the full detonation.  It's not the nukes that keep us out.

[zilpin]

Before you go thinking that creating a micronation out in the deep blue sea is easy, look at the status of the Republic of China.

A functioning independent parliament representing 20+ million people, yet they are not recognized as a nation.
Oh, and their government still officially claims to be the 'real' China, despite not being China, and the people not self identifying as ethnically 'Chinese', and being an island.  Yeah.
Strangely, nearly everybody (including the People's Republic of China) accepts their passports anyway.

The whole insane situation is just waiting to become the July Crisis of the 21st century.

[DJ]

Please, everyone knows you don't dare to touch them because they'd turn Seoul into fine dust in a matter of hours.

Sealand for example could hold London hostage in a similar way. Only with a nuke instead of artillery.

[mainiac]

Please, everyone knows you don't dare to touch them because they'd turn Seoul into fine dust in a matter of hours.

1) Massive exaggeration of their capabilities.

Sealand for example could hold London hostage in a similar way. Only with a nuke instead of artillery.

Yes, which is why the British would immediately kill the madman running the place in self defense.

If South Korea dropped a hundred bombs on Pyongyang war would ensue.  If the Brits dropped 1 bomb on Sealand, there would be no one left to be at war with.

If Mutually Assured Destruction isn't Mutual, then all you are left with is Assured Destruction.

[DJ]

Common estimate is that NK has 14 000 pieces of artillery aimed at Seoul. Sure, it wouldn't be literally flattened (even Stalingrad had plenty of buildings left standing at the end of the battle), but destruction would be immense. Too immense to make invasion of North Korea feasible.

As for Sealand, sure, it would be quickly destroyed, but is it really worth sacrificing London? They'd really have to piss off UK to make them invade. Something like trying to extort a ridiculous amount of money that the Brits can't possibly afford, like one million dollars. Drugs just don't cut it. I mean, Netherlands has drug tourism, and it's been over half a century since Germany last invaded them.

[lordcooper]

I call God Emperor.