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[SkyRender]

 I decided to do a proper supply and logistics analysis of the LSSD industry and discovered that my current method has a surprising amount of waste involved!  I could probably up my productivity by as much as 25%, in fact.

Large, steel serrated disc manufacturing process

1. Iron ore, raw coal, and flux are mined out
2. 2 Iron ore are processed into 2 iron bars
3. 1 raw coal is processed into 2 or 3 fuel coal
4. 1 iron bar, 1 fuel coal, and 1 flux are processed into pig iron
5. 1 iron bar, 1 fuel coal, 1 flux, and 1 pig iron are processed into steel
6. 1 steel bar is manufactured into 1 large, steel serrated disc
7. The large, steel serrated disc is put into storage
8. Large, steel serrated disc is brought to the trade depot

Waste:

1. Mining areas that are not iron ore, raw coal, or flux
2. Hauling of iron ore to the smelter; hauling iron bars from the smelter
3. Hauling raw coal to the smelter; hauling fuel coal from the smelter
4. Hauling materials to the smelter; hauling pig iron from the smelter
5. Hauling materials to the smelter; hauling steel from the smelter
6. Hauling steel to the forge
7. Hauling large, steel serrated disc to storage
8. Hauling large, steel serrated disc to the trade depot

Potential ways of minimizing waste:

1. Optimized exporatory mining and target mining (ie. only mine out veins of iron, raw coal, and flux)
2-5. Smelters near ore deposits; no stockpiles for iron bars, pig iron bars, steel bars, or fuel coal
6. Forge near smelter
7. Stockpile near forge
8. Trade depot near large, steel serrated disc stockpile, use bins to store the LSSDs

Uncontrollable variances:

- The location of magma smelters is often far from iron ore, coal, and flux deposits.

- Practically speaking, putting the trading depot near the magma smelters may not prove productive.

- Dwarves have to drink, eat, sleep, and go on break sometimes.

Controllable variances:

- Stockpiles can be set up near the smelters to take iron ore, coal, and flux that are only refilled by non-smelting non-forging Dwarves.  (This does not change the waste equation for the fortress overall, but does prevent waste on the LSSD production side.)

- Housing, meeting areas, and food/drink for forge workers can be placed close to the forges and burrowed off.

- Set up no party-worthy meeting areas to avoid lost work due to partying smelter/forge workers.

Output measures:
- Value of items produced (average)  Est: 18900 per disc average
- Skills of Dwarves improved  Est: No-skill to Legendary in 1 year

Input measures:
- Materials (2 iron ore, 1 raw fuel, 2 flux apiece)
- Hauling labor (min. of 8 jobs apiece)
- Time taken (average)  Est: 2 days per LSSD (~180 LSSDs per year)

Productivity measures:
Value / Time: 3,402,000 per year
Value / Hauling: 2352.5 per hauling job
Value / Materials: 3780 per component

Sustainability Limitations:
- Availability of iron ore, raw coal, and/or flux

 I have given this far too much thought, wouldn't you agree?  This is all for just one Magma Forge and perhaps 3 to 4 Magma Smelters, mind.

[Urist Da Vinci]

...
Uncontrollable variances:

- The location of magma smelters is often far from iron ore, coal, and flux deposits.
...

Magma piston. Magma pump stack. Bring magma close to the surface for convenience.

[Nelia Hawk]

i would say the "leather industry" is even more "unbalanced" than the "cloths industry"... not speaking of the economic area of tradeing value (serrated discs... urgh...) but the production one (how to get a reasonable amount and steady production).

i am pretty sure if i just say that most of us simply buy cloths and leather bins from traders and then create finished goods for sale/military...

who actually thought about createing "similar amounts to what you get from traders" in your own fort?
i would guess ... not many people atall. i.e farming pig tails is probably usually a "random byproduct" of a empty field used for something thats not plump helmets again and leather is a random byproduct from hunting/food production (hunting itsself is probably just a niche job too, compared to how effective farming is compared to hunting).

to get a self made "bigger" cloth industry is probably still kind of achiveable with like 20-40 fields of pigtails or so. (reminds me to try that out later in my current fort... createing all the cloth myself and not tradeing for it as usual!)

but to get a leather industry working.... you either need to bucher quite alot, that animal breeding probably requires 100+ animals to keep up.
or hunt alot (what can be difficult with bolt production, or dangerous animals/injured/killed hunters).

in both cases i think buchered animals always just give 1 skin to tan? (never realy observed butchering) so maybe cats could give 1 skin but larger animals could give more? cow 4? elephant 8?  maybe influenced by the atributes shown in the info screen i.e. "it is fat (+1meat/+1hide), it is skinny (-1meat/-1hide), it is giant (+2+2), it is tiny (-2-2)" etc.

but that probably opens up more "something gives more than 1" situations too... like a tree could have a size atribute depending how many years its on the map... "its a young (1 year), small (1 wood) birch tree", "its a old (6 years), giant (+5 wood) larch tree".

question is how old is a old tree? (5 years? i doubt that many trees survive 20+ years in fort mode, so "old" could be 5 years.... or just from world gen trees at embark? would give mroe wood at embark atleast)

[MenacesWithSpikes]

I decided to do a proper supply and logistics analysis of the LSSD industry

Want to do one for the platinum goblets?

Assume access to:
1 Legendary Metalcrafter
1 Legendary Gem Cutter
1 Expert Gem Setter
Magma
17 platinum bars (what this fort has handy at the moment)
If you want to do gold goblets as well, I've got 50 bars of that.

[Drawde]

Using just 2x2 farm plots, I have six pig tail plots (only productive half a year) and eight rope reed plots.  Three farmers, no fertalizer.  I'm having plants rot in the field since they can't be processed fast enough, with only one brewer and thresher.  One weaver and tailor, and I've haven't had to reset the tailor due to running out of cloth in a couple years.  I'm just making clothing for my dwarves, and haven't had to touch the entire process in a long time.  I probably have excess clothing I could trade away, if there was anything I even wanted anymore from them.

Note that the three farmers are also working one 2x2 plot of each berry (three types), rat weeds, grass, and two plots of mixed seasonal underground plants.  No dye products or miller used.  The entire process works without any input from my part now, other than the occasional checkup to make sure nothing's gone wrong.

[Sus]

Seriously.  Nothing beats the 5 finger discount.

That is dishonorable and you should feel bad.

Besides, it's too damn easy. The Dwarven way is the hard way.

[jellsprout]

2-5. Smelters near ore deposits; no stockpiles for iron bars, pig iron bars, steel bars, or fuel coal

If you mean simply leaving the metal bars inside the smelters, this will produce clutter in the workshops and slow it down. Best is to have the stockpiles as near to the smelters as possible, either directly surrounding it or on the floor above it with the stair directly next to the workshop.

For simplified schematics, Large, Serrated Steel Discs (LSSD) requires:
-5 long hauling jobs (2 iron ore, 2 flux stone, 1 lignite)
-7 production jobs (2 iron bar, 1 pig iron bar, 1 coal, 1 steel bar, 2 LSSD)
-5 other jobs (2 iron ore mine, 2 flux mine, 1 lignite mine)

Using wood instead of lignite requires 6 hauling, 8 production and 6 other jobs, while using bituminous coal requires 5 2/3 hauling, 6 2/3 production and 4 2/3 other jobs. This produces two LSSD with a base value of 3780 each, giving a total base value of 7560 for the entire process.
Assuming the mining jobs take a time of 1 job equivalent, the production jobs take a time of 3 job equivalent and the hauling jobs take a time of 10 job equivalents, this takes a total time of 76 job equivalents, producing a value of 99.5 per job equivalent.

In comparison, Large, Serrated Green Glass Discs (LSGGD) require:

2 long hauling jobs (bag to sand, sand bag to furnace)
1 production job (LSGGD)
1 other job (collect sand)

This produces one LSGGD with a base value of 252. This chain takes a total 24 job equivalents, producing a value of 10.5 per job equivalent, meaning LSSD produce about 9.5 times as much value.

Now in comparison to Large, Serrated Silver Discs (LSSiD):

1 long hauling job (silver ore)
2 production jobs (silver bars, LSSiD)
1 other job (mining)

LSSiD have a base value of 1260. This takes 17 job equivalents, giving it a production rate of 74.1 per job equivalent. This means LSSD produce about 1.3 times as much value.

This doesn't take several optimizations into account. For example, by putting both your empty and sand bag stockpiles directly next to the furnaces and putting the meeting hall directly next to that so your haulers can do the haul empty bag, collect sand and haul sand bag jobs in the same trip, saving about 1.7 times the time. Alternatively you can use a magma piston to bring magma to the surface or using a cave-in to bring sand to the magma sea, effectively removing the haul job, saving about 6 times the time.

I would also do a similar analysis for the food and clothing industries, but I'm not entirely sure how the values are calculated in those.

[Girlinhat]

Hauling is free labor, I can't imagine anyone figuring in hauling costs into their economy...

[kaijyuu]

Long story short, you can get rich with any industry.

[jellsprout]

Hauling is free labor, I can't imagine anyone figuring in hauling costs into their economy...

It takes time. If you have several dwarves constantly hauling items from workshop to stockpile and vise versa, you could just as easily have those three dwarves producing items if the stockpiles were better optimized. Compare having sand on the surface and having a sand block dropped down to the magma sea. In the first case you need 5 haulers to collect the sand for every glassmaker, while in the second case it is about 1 hauler per 3 glassmakers. With the same amount of dwarves, I can produce four times as many glass items just by the reducing the hauling time. Hauling costs a lot of dwarfpower, especially if it hasn't been optimized, so taking it into account for the total productivity is necessary.

[Jake]

Also, don't buy cloth. Who BUYS cloth? Farms are small, free, and produce unlimited goods.

They're pretty labour-intensive, though. Even with "all dwarves harvest" turned on, you're going to have to devote a lot of dwarf-hours to farming pig tails and/or rope reed, possibly to the point where you're self-sufficient in cloth at the cost of having to import all your weapons and armour and most of your booze. Wool is a bit easier, but you still need a pretty big flock to keep even one Competent+ Clothier going year-round.

[FrisianDude]

No, unbalanced is a highly skilled metalcrafter, Platinum Goblets, and a year when the dwarven traders REALLY want goblets.

You could probably make it even more ridiculous if you have a highly skilled gem cutter and gem setter as well.

Goblets schmoblets. Masterful steel serrated discs.

[Girlinhat]

Also, don't buy cloth. Who BUYS cloth? Farms are small, free, and produce unlimited goods.

They're pretty labour-intensive, though. Even with "all dwarves harvest" turned on, you're going to have to devote a lot of dwarf-hours to farming pig tails and/or rope reed, possibly to the point where you're self-sufficient in cloth at the cost of having to import all your weapons and armour and most of your booze. Wool is a bit easier, but you still need a pretty big flock to keep even one Competent+ Clothier going year-round.

2-3 farmers, 1 weaver, 1 dyer, 1 clothier.  5-6 dwarves dedicated to textiles, and some mooks for milling and processing.  7-8 dwarves if you're dedicating a thresher and a miller.  And those farmers will also supply your food as well.  Basically, 6 dwarves max for a clothing industry.  1 each of farmer, thresher, miller, dyer, weaver, clothier.  That will produce an endless stream of ☼Rope Reed Fiber Amulet☼ crafts to buy out everything ever.

You don't have 6 spare mooks?

Also turn harvesting only on farmers, it builds their skills up quicker and you'll be overflowing the stacks of 5 plants per tile.

[fluffhead]

If your trying to setup a leather farming industry a 10 story drop is a must.  As most (if not all) animals give 1 leather, the method of dropping the animal 10 floors or more to allow the animal to splatter into multiple parts (8? 10? maybe) each butcherable then produces 8 or 10 leathers out of that same animal that previously would have given you only 1 leather.

[FrisianDude]

If your trying to setup a leather farming industry a 10 story drop is a must.  As most (if not all) animals give 1 leather, the method of dropping the animal 10 floors or more to allow the animal to splatter into multiple parts (8? 10? maybe) each butcherable then produces 8 or 10 leathers out of that same animal that previously would have given you only 1 leather.

That would imply a shortage of leather which I rarely have. Both Dwarfs and humans tend to bring at least four bins even without me asking.