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[vorpal+5]

How hard would it be to have custom graphics for each item (potentially...), like axe, hammer, breastplate, whatever you name it? Answer, probably not much, it is just an indirection in the code logic, instead of reading a field, you check another. If this is programmed in OOP style then there is just a function to edit so it reads a data and not another...

And yet, years pass and nothing comes on that. But who knows, perhaps in 2012?

[Kogut]

"BEFORE POSTING A SUGGESTION (...) Search for an existing thread. If you find a thread similar to your idea, you can bump it to expand on the suggestion, even if the thread is old.  However, please do not bump threads just to show support."

[NW_Kohaku]

To be a little more helpful...

Full Graphics Support is the fifth-place suggestion on Eternal Suggestion Voting.

This thread, in particular, has a protracted debate over why the game does not have all of this, yet. 

There are problems with actually doing this, as you will see, especially in that latter thread. 

However, by and large, the simple fact of the matter is that Toady considers ASCII perfectly fine for what he is doing now, and does not consider it a high priority to add graphics support.

[dneb]

I'm not even playing the game but just heard some raves about how awesome it is. I just read a little about it and it's the kind of game my 12 year old son would LOVE (civilizations, history, story line, geography!), in short, it's nearly perfect.

Based on what I'm reading from everyone, this game _should_ be the next Minecraft.

But when I looked at some maps, a feeling of being overwhelmed came over me, and I know my (impatient) son probably won't even give it a shot. I wonder how many (millions?) of others haven't given it the chance because of that 2-second impulse as well? Minecraft has shown graphics don't have to be great...

Are there/could there be tile sets to replace the ASCII with very simple graphics (like the original Civilization games for example). Just so an outside newb like myself can tell I'm looking at walls, grass, trees, etc. It doesn't need to be pretty -- just representative so I don't need to try and memorize what I'm looking at (my memory is NOT what it used to be -- memorizing what a square root sign, ampersand, etc are (and different colors of each???) just ain't gonna happen).

Anyway, just want to offer some (probably oft-repeated) constructive criticism.  Is the ASCII art the most important, or would allowing 100x the fan base in to discover the richness of the environment and game play be better?

[NW_Kohaku]

But when I looked at some maps, a feeling of being overwhelmed came over me, and I know my (impatient) son probably won't even give it a shot. I wonder how many (millions?) of others haven't given it the chance because of that 2-second impulse as well? Minecraft has shown graphics don't have to be great...

You might want to try looking at Stonesense, a cartoonish isometric view version of the game.

It's created by memory-hacking the game, so you need some memory hack programs running, but it gives you a cartoony way to look at what you are actually doing in the game. 

Otherwise, there are several graphics packs out there, and The Lazy Newb Pack exists to try to put everything (including Stonesense) that makes the game easier to play all into one single package with a graphic interface to customize how the game is customized.

As for the "millions" that would play the game if it had better graphics... well, Toady has basically given up on trying to snare more than a select sliver of the population into playing the game.  DF is more of a "Performance Art" project than a business venture, done simply for the sake of being done rather than fame and fortune.

[thisisjimmy]

Based on what I'm reading from everyone, this game _should_ be the next Minecraft.

Interestingly, Dwarf Fortress was actually one of the inspirations for Minecraft.

[NW_Kohaku]

Based on what I'm reading from everyone, this game _should_ be the next Minecraft.

Interestingly, Dwarf Fortress was actually one of the inspirations for Minecraft.

Yeah, I've tried describing Dwarf Fortress to people, and the way they respond is "... So, it's like Minecraft?"

[white_darkness]

I'm not even playing the game but just heard some raves about how awesome it is. I just read a little about it and it's the kind of game my 12 year old son would LOVE (civilizations, history, story line, geography!), in short, it's nearly perfect.

Based on what I'm reading from everyone, this game _should_ be the next Minecraft.

But when I looked at some maps, a feeling of being overwhelmed came over me, and I know my (impatient) son probably won't even give it a shot. I wonder how many (millions?) of others haven't given it the chance because of that 2-second impulse as well? Minecraft has shown graphics don't have to be great...

Are there/could there be tile sets to replace the ASCII with very simple graphics (like the original Civilization games for example). Just so an outside newb like myself can tell I'm looking at walls, grass, trees, etc. It doesn't need to be pretty -- just representative so I don't need to try and memorize what I'm looking at (my memory is NOT what it used to be -- memorizing what a square root sign, ampersand, etc are (and different colors of each???) just ain't gonna happen).

Anyway, just want to offer some (probably oft-repeated) constructive criticism.  Is the ASCII art the most important, or would allowing 100x the fan base in to discover the richness of the environment and game play be better?

There's tilesets and the lazy newb pack is supposed to allow the switching of those and other things on and off.

Personally, let your son give it a try.  Irregardless of the graphics.

I can't even understand the fuss over tile sets, since any tile set used outside of ASCII just leads to images I can't understand.

[vorpal+5]

That's the reverse for me, so we are from different worlds. The main argument why it is not done is because Toady don't care about it. I'm curious about the proportion of people who prefers to play with ASCII and who prefers not.

Also the Eternal Suggestion Voting has some interesting aspects to grasp, if you analyse it a bit. There is no URL for the first entry, but the second points to a thread dating from 2009, and many threads are also quite old, despite the popularity of the request. It is thus not difficult to conclude with a fair amount of plausibility that the ESV is not used by Toady to determine what he will do. Instead we get revamped dogs training, socks sorting and suchlike.

Now I guess a squad of zealots will club me to death. Oh well, that's life. 

[Kogut]

Fixing training was requested in "the worst bug" poll (as fix DM bug). (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.0 - "bug #3453 - Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master - 66 [votes] (10.9%)")

[NW_Kohaku]

However, basically, yes, the ESV list is essentially from 2008, 2009.  If you look at the ESV thread, you will see this exact argument played out.

Toady is far more responsive to the bug reports than he is to the suggestions list.  With that said, there also seems to have been more cohesive pressure placed upon him by people complaining about bug reports, and people have by-and-large given up or forgotten about the Suggestions Forum, to the point where some have said that, "It only exists because some people feel it's their prerogative to say something."

If you are going to use the Suggestions Forum, I would suggest you do so for the sake of enjoying debating the ideas for its own sake.  I have learned many things about topics I never would have dreamed I would ever care about by talking with people here, and gained the interest in topics to do independent research to further my understanding of and arguments for a topic.

There are intelligent people with esoteric fields of expertise here that are quite fun to go toe-to-toe with and learn from.

[vorpal+5]

I understand your points Kohaku. I can also understand the point when people says Toady does the game he wants. Still, he could probably leverage more people with simpler graphics, and more people, more money usually.

[NW_Kohaku]

I understand your points Kohaku. I can also understand the point when people says Toady does the game he wants. Still, he could probably leverage more people with simpler graphics, and more people, more money usually.

This is the argument that has been made for years by many people, and I would agree with you.  Many of the fans most protective of Toady, and apparently, Toady himself, however, do not agree, and are largely tired of hearing the argument to the point that they chase off those who try to make it.