Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: Starting a Real Fortress  (Read 7910 times)

Thecard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Back in With the Old!
    • View Profile
Starting a Real Fortress
« on: March 25, 2012, 07:36:36 pm »

Though I have played a bit of fort mode, I really just play adventure mode.  I realized the game is called Dwarf FORTRESS, and so I am starting a fort with the latest version.  But since I haven't played fort mode much, I was wondering if any of you had suggestions.  Should I rely on fishing, farming, or hunting for my food?  Which biome should I embark in?  What kind of starting skills?  Feel free to answer any more questions you think I may have.
Logged

I think the slaughter part is what made them angry.
OOC: Dachshundofdoom: This is how the world ends, not with a bang but with goddamn VUVUZELAS.
Those hookers aren't getting out any time soon, no matter how many fancy gadgets they have :v

Girlinhat

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING:large ears]
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 07:43:27 pm »

Turn off invaders and fool around.  Bring a planter, miner, brewer, and anything else.  Dig out a chunk of soil, make a huge farm, set it to grow edible things year-round.

Then, explore.  Once you've got food and booze under control, you can start the learning process on the specifics of fortress life.

Reudh

  • Bay Watcher
  • Perge scelus mihi diem perficias.
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 07:52:24 pm »

In order of importance:


Farming -> Pretty much infinite source of food if you can make a working plot. Plump helmets are very useful.
Hunting -> Good source of food if you have at least two-three hunters with decent skills using crossbows made of bone and bolts of bone - i frequently get Proficient Archer/Observer/Ambusher/Hunters oneshotting their prey. They haul the corpses back, and provided the auto-butcher order is on, you get huge amounts of food coming in near constantly.
Fishing -> Very good source of food, but if too many dwarves fish at once you can deplete the source. Generally a good idea to restrict one dwarf to each known fish source.
Plant Gathering -> Last ditch food effort. Use only if you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It is useful to get some variety to supplement your farming though.

Biomes: Try a warm or a temperate one. If it's your first time, try an Untamed Wilds. Neutral, warmish to temperate...

And ideally: 1. One dwarf in charge of food processing (brewing, cooking, growing)
2. A mason or a carpenter, preferably a carpenter with woodcutting skill as you can deconstruct your wagon and start building immediately, plus you need beds.
3. A dwarf with planting and herbalism. A woodcutter can double as a herbalist too.
4. If you do have a mason, make sure he has the Mechanic labor too - it's quite useful to be able to make a sealable entrance early on.
5. A dedicated fisherdwarf with fish cleaning enabled. Useful as a early food source.
6. A miner, to dig out your fort.
7. A dwarf in charge of beautifying and hauling, namely the Gem Cutting and later, Setting labors, and engraving (stone detailing.)

NonconsensualSurgery

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 07:52:30 pm »

Warm/hot biomes give you water that never freezes, which is valuable until you figure out how to dig a cavern well without anybody drowning or letting forgotten beasts in.

Logged
Never had a bat massacre people with an axe before.
EDIT2: Oh god, the bat has got a title now.

KodKod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Fond of despair and alcoholism.
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 07:52:32 pm »

Build a cage. Stuff every damn kitten that your cats give birth to into said cage and mount the key on the wall with a warhammer and a breakable glass case labelled "Emergency Food Supply".
Logged
/人‿‿人\
Tell me what you see. It's a mortal wretched cacophony!
KodBlog: A rage in progress. Updated 20/04/12

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Inscrubtable Exhortations of the Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 08:04:15 pm »

I'd go with Girlinhat's suggestion, then add:

Design most of your fortress with the dig tool first. Then clip off hallways and doorways so your miners dig it in a semi-reasonable fashion. Set up a craftdwarf shop immediately and set a dwarf to make stone crafts.

These stone crafts will allow you to trade for everything you could possibly need. Food, clothing, raw materials, weapons, everything. Make sure you set up your depot quickly too so you can take advantage of that very first caravan to build up a surplus of food and drink.

Secondly, you'll need a carpenter because you're going to need barrels and bins (along with beds and all that other stuff) to store the massive amount of supplies you're taking on.) You might have them double as your woodcutter too.

Thirdly, build a still and start training a brewer. Because the volume of alcohol you're going to need for even 30 dwarves gets very, very expensive. Not so much you can't afford it, but so much that a good chunk of your time will be spent moving shite loads of crafts to the trader to pay for it. Until I get my farms up and running, I usually assign several dwarves whose roles aren't ready to be filled to gather as many plants as they can, so my brewer will have to stuff to brew.

Once you've got a nniiiiccceee stockpile of booze and food, and plenty of barrels to store it in, then you start messing around with farming and hunting and cooking and butchery ect...all those other methods being secure in the knowledge you need none of them to truly survive.

Making a jewelry workshop and cutting raw stones and any gems you dig out can also fund trading, while also skilling up a trade skill that's more valuable than stone crafting.

I'd also consider setting your pop cap very low to start out with. Some may say that's a level of fun you should not restrict, but the logistics of feeding all those dwarves can lead to a very messy fortress for the first 10 years, as you're setting up several craft shops to crank out ever more stone crafts to buy all the crap you need. The default pop cap kind of assume you're going to play with invaders on, so it throws tons of dwarves at you to make up for the casualties you'd normally be suffering.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:14:07 pm by nenjin »
Logged
Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

slothen

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 08:08:13 pm »

In order of importance:


Farming -> Pretty much infinite source of food if you can make a working plot. Plump helmets are very useful. BREWABLE PLANTS.
Animals-> couple dogs -> tons of puppy meat, bones, leather.  Food is handled, or bring a few turkeys and build a nest box.  Instantly tons of eggs (require cooking, but free and consistent food production for little effort).
Plant Gathering -> Last ditch food effort. Use only if you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It is useful to get some variety to supplement your farming though. Amazing source of food you can do immediately upon embarking to get you brewable plants and seeds for setting up an instant outdoor farm.  Requires no equipment, you can specify where to gather.
Hunting -> Good source of food if you have at least two-three hunters with decent skills using crossbows made of bone and bolts of bone - i frequently get Proficient Archer/Observer/Ambusher/Hunters oneshotting their prey. They haul the corpses back, and provided the auto-butcher order is on, you get huge amounts of food coming in near constantly.  Sucks because results are not brewable, and any dwarf with this job will do it full time.
Fishing -> Very good source of food, but if too many dwarves fish at once you can deplete the source. Generally a good idea to restrict one dwarf to each known fish source.  Ditto the above.

fixed
Logged
While adding magma to anything will make it dwarfy, adding the word "magma" to your post does not necessarily make it funny.
Thoughts on water
MILITARY: squad, uniform, training
"DF doesn't mold players into its image - DF merely selects those who were always ready for DF." -NW_Kohaku

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Inscrubtable Exhortations of the Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 08:12:05 pm »

Fishing is ok, but its depletability is what kills it. For a while there, you get a food source and lots of bits and pieces to put into crafting.

Hunting is just terrible. High-risk, wears on the dwarf, and adds several steps to the process of animal --> meat. And it's got too many things necessary to set up. Compared to raising livestock, it's a waste of time and dwarf labor.
Logged
Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Reudh

  • Bay Watcher
  • Perge scelus mihi diem perficias.
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 08:12:06 pm »

Pfeh, they can live without alcohol but they can't live without food.

Gizogin

  • Bay Watcher
  • [EVIL][RAWMANCER]
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 08:12:54 pm »

There's a very good guide on the wiki titled "Your First Fortress," so I'd have a look for that.
Logged
Quote from: franti
"Let's expose our military to zombie-dust so they can't feel pain. They don't NEED skin."
Quote from: Ipwnurmom221
One FB post. Many dick jokes. Pokemon. !!VOLCANO!!. Dwarven mood thingee. Derailment itself. Girlinhat's hat. Cuba. Karl Marx. This is why i love Bay12 forums.
The rest of my sig.
Fear the fluffballs

NW_Kohaku

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:SCIENCE_FOR_FUN: REQUIRED]
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 08:21:17 pm »

Crop farming is the easiest to maintain.  Once you have a reasonably-sized plot going (you only need about 50 tiles on food production to support a fortress if you use wheat and quarry bushes to get 5 times normal food, but you might want a dozen or so tiles of farm focused on clothing production, as well), the whole thing practically runs itself.

Animal-based food production is more tricky, since you need to butcher animals all the time, and that takes manually designating things, which I hate doing.  Eggs are a significant break from this, however, as egg-layers are ridiculously fecund.  A few turkeys will solve all your food problems forever, and are nearly cheating. 

Fishing is more hassle than it is usually worth, but then, you need a couple shells for moods, so have a single fisherdwarf to get those shells more than to get food.  Remember to forbid those things, and remember that fisherdwarves tend to die a lot.

Warm biomes are best, but try to embark on the border between two or three different kinds of biomes with different types of minerals to give yourself the best shot at getting a good selection. 

I like embarking on sloped areas, because if you remove all the ramps from a slope, you can effectively turn a hill into an impassible wall very easily, and it's much easier to just designate a huge chunk of area to have its ramps carved out than it is to wall a huge area in.  Look for a way to use the least walls possible to completely enclose a large amount of wooded pasture area. 



When trying to build a fortress, remember to avoid making large, open, square designations.  Those are inefficient, and slow down your fortress's FPS.  Instead, dig out a soil layer stockpile, then drill stairwells down from that, with the workshops that use whatever resources the stockpile holds sitting in rooms right off that stairwell.  If you spread your workshops out horizontally from your stockpile, each workshop is 3 or 4 tiles further away from the stockpile than the last one, but if you do it vertically, they're only 1 tile further away.

Do the same for housing - just make a few rooms clustered around a few stairwells down from the corners of the main dining/meeting hall, with a food/booze stockpile on top of it. 

I tend to make "efficiency fortresses" in a "pod" system, where I have a central dining hall, with residential districts below that in the center.  On each direction around that, make your stone, wood, metal, and military/gateway/trade districts, where you focus all your stockpiles for each in a cardinal direction around the central residential district, and with workshops of the proper type drilling down below the specific material type's stockpile.

Remember, soil layers are fast, and produce no stone, so feel free to dig with a reckless abandon there, but be very limited in your mining of stone and ore - you don't need that much, and it's a drag on your system. 

Also remember, a full soil "wall" beneath a soil floor will spawn underground trees inside the soil layers, which may be a good or bad thing, so either dig out whole floors, or skip alternating floors accordingly.



Set up your basic food production first, and security second.  If you aren't going to die, then you're free to work on darn near anything else after that.

For a first fort, feel free to make plenty of traps - cage traps and stonefall traps are super.  Cage traps are "instant kills" in a way, but you need to keep supplying them with cages.  Remember that ambushers can avoid traps, so you need to put some chains with dogs on them behind a "blind corner" (to avoid marksmen) of walls in front of your entrance to stop those pesky sneaking types.
Logged
Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

Girlinhat

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING:large ears]
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 08:43:52 pm »

Just wanna say that fishing is "fixed".  Vermin now reproduce on their own, and fishing is renewable.

KodKod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Fond of despair and alcoholism.
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 08:51:26 pm »

Just wanna say that fishing is "fixed".  Vermin now reproduce on their own, and fishing is renewable.

Are you for realsies? Because I didn't get much sleep last night and this could all be a very good dream.
Logged
/人‿‿人\
Tell me what you see. It's a mortal wretched cacophony!
KodBlog: A rage in progress. Updated 20/04/12

Frogwarrior

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 08:54:36 pm »

I recommend having at least one fisherman so you have a source of shells. I hate nothing more than losing a dwarf because durrr, he wanted something that isn't on the map.
Logged
Lately, I'm proud of MAGMA LANDMINES:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91789.0
And been a bit smug over generating a world with an elephant monster that got 87763 sentient kills.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104354.0

Girlinhat

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING:large ears]
    • View Profile
Re: Starting a Real Fortress
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 08:55:24 pm »

I don't do fishing myself, too messy of an industry, but this has been reported since like last year.  Vermin reproduce, apparently via budding.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4