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[Galick]

Someone trying to 'teach' discipline is pointless - the only time people would actually accept that kind've lesson is when they want to learn and they actually respect the person teaching.  I'm not disciplined.  I'm a lazy fuck who's only just now starting to get his life together.  People have tried to teach me discipline.  You know all that happened?  They pissed me off and got me to be even worse out of spite because I didn't respect them.  I believe in only respecting people who actually earn it.  I give everyone the same politeness, but for any more than that they have to actually prove themselves to not be worthless in my eyes.

Arrogant?  Hell yes.  Am I going to change that?  Hell no.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Discipline isn't taught, discipline is learned through the polishing of a skill. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. If anything I would suggest our schools have each kid do a manditory school sport (a whole list to choose from but you have to pick one). Even if they don't like it, there is a better chance of beneficial activity. Plus y'know the obesity thing would be sorta fixed.

[DarkWolfXV]

I reccomend reading On Combat by Dave Grossman. He talks about how school shootings and shitty rebelious behaviour can ba avoided if you give a kid a skill. You teach a person to run early on, they will try to be the best at running, teach a person to try to be the best and they no longer feel threatened.

School shooting is mostly fault of not giving a fuck about kids mental state and fucking bullying. In my school there were bullies who didnt stop at just calling you names and insults. And when you told a teacher you just got beaten up in a fight 1 vs 4 teacher said : "Just tell them to stop"
Honestly this is biggest not giving a fuck ever and long time of not doing anything and not caring for children is the reason of school shootings.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

I reccomend reading On Combat by Dave Grossman. He talks about how school shootings and shitty rebelious behaviour can ba avoided if you give a kid a skill. You teach a person to run early on, they will try to be the best at running, teach a person to try to be the best and they no longer feel threatened.

School shooting is mostly fault of not giving a fuck about kids mental state and fucking bullying. In my school there were bullies who didnt stop at just calling you names and insults. And when you told a teacher you just got beaten up in a fight 1 vs 4 teacher said : "Just tell them to stop"
Honestly this is biggest not giving a fuck ever and long time of not doing anything and not caring for children is the reason of school shootings.

Common misconception.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Psychologically, the common theory is, it is from an influx of violence in the media of the last 10-20 years. You have a kid growing up in an environment that is overly safe but what they are seeing is that their environment is very threatening. The child percieves things like bullying and competition as threats to health---> School shooting. This can be eliminated when the person has respect for themselves, the weapon, or their community Ie. developing discipline. To say that there is to much bullying and that the world sucks is treating a symptom and not very effectively at that. But this is only from things I've read. Psychology is a little difficult to state as fact in some cases.

[mainiac]

Wow I never said I was better than someone who hasn't learned about critical thinking. I just said I thought it would do wonders if we were all taught it.

Just because you didn't say it doesn't mean that it wasn't entirely implied by what you said.  When you talk about people as flawed and say they should be different, the implication that you are better then them is rather inescapable.

I am not a teacher, just someone who does paid tutoring paid time (or did before our budget got slashed and I drew the short straw a month back).  But you don't need to teach people to know that it would be nice if only teaching was done better.  If it were easy they would have done so already.  You might as well tell a silver medal sprinter that their problem is that they didn't run fast enough.

A lot of schooling systems are deficient.  But that's a million little problems in them, not some obvious thing they're too dumb to notice.  Telling them to teach critical thinking doesn't help them, it just contributes to the sense that society doesn't appreciate their work.  They would teach critical thinking if they had the talent, training, time, resources and freedom to do so.

[Galick]

I've grown up with nothing but violent media and I'm an actual pacifist.  I don't believe in fighting at all, there can always be a way to solve things without violence.

In regards to school bullying, I've been beaten (literally) in massive groups, insulted and verbally abused daily, had my stuff stolen and thrown away or similar, been beaten in front of teachers who let it happen since the people who did it were on one of the sports teams, and quite a few other things that I've likely forgotten about at this point.  This went on from about third grade up until I left high school (about 10 years worth)

Was it tempting to just get a gun and shoot the worst of the lot?  Very.  Not a day went by I didn't think about it or fantasize about it.  It all comes down to strength of will though, and whether or not the person going through it was psychologically healthy to begin with.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

You do not embody the mindset or experiences of every person in the school system. Your experience is quanta.

[Il Palazzo]

Discipline isn't taught, discipline is learned through the polishing of a skill. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. If anything I would suggest our schools have each kid do a manditory school sport (a whole list to choose from but you have to pick one). Even if they don't like it, there is a better chance of beneficial activity. Plus y'know the obesity thing would be sorta fixed.

Having just finished my teaching practices in a lower secondary school that had just that kind of setup running alongside the usual classes, I can tell you that kids in the so called "sports classes" were much less disciplined than the rest of the bunch. Which is exactly what you should expect from adolescents who'd just had their blood pumped up to their heads by two hours of running around.
If you want discipline in class, make the lesson interesting. Which, by the way, sounds nice in theory, but is hard to do.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Discipline isn't taught, discipline is learned through the polishing of a skill. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. If anything I would suggest our schools have each kid do a manditory school sport (a whole list to choose from but you have to pick one). Even if they don't like it, there is a better chance of beneficial activity. Plus y'know the obesity thing would be sorta fixed.

Having just finished my teaching practices in a lower secondary school that had just that kind of setup running alongside the usual classes, I can tell you that kids in the so called "sports classes" were much less disciplined than the rest of the bunch. Which is exactly what you should expect from adolescents who'd just had their blood pumped up to their heads by two hours of running around.
If you want discipline in class, make the lesson interesting. Which, by the way, sounds nice in theory, but is hard to do.

Again, multiple sports available, you pick one. Some people like fencing others like football. A regular PE class that gives a taste of everything is not going to be effective. However PE wasn't created with the intent of giving skills, Pe was an excuse to tire out a bunch of hormone and sugar filled little animals before you send them home because for a lot of adults school is tax payed daycare.

[Il Palazzo]

These were not regular PE classes. These were exactly the type you're describing.

[Galick]

This all depends on the school system.  And funding.  My school just had the very very basic of the basics.  We used portable trailers for some classes, our gym had no equipment beyond basketball hoops, we only had football and basketball for sports choices, we had NO extracurricular type things at all...if we had any sort of funding at all for anything beyond the very basics then it might have been different.  You don't seem to grasp that a LOT of school systems don't have the extra money for anything else.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

These were not regular PE classes. These were exactly the type you're describing.

How long did the tests last? Were they along side regular schooling? Was the control a nromal PE class? Where did this take place?

[Il Palazzo]

These were not regular PE classes. These were exactly the type you're describing.

How long did the tests last? Were they along side regular schooling? Was the control a nromal PE class? Where did this take place?

1.I have no idea.
2.Yes. How else?
3.If by control you mean what am I comparing them to, then yes.
4.Lower secondary, a large city in Poland.

Also, kids 14-16 years old.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

There is your problem. These must begin at a very young age (5-6) and continue all the way up to later in highschool. Long term stuff, dude. Of course if you get a bunch of teenagers who haven't done this before ran around for two hours they will be pissed off.