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[EuchreJack]

Perhaps they were Programmers, they get called into certain areas by the Overmind.

[gimlet]

From Kyzrati:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was considering adding some sort of visual cue indicating whether a given robot has noticed, but didn't get a chance to do that yet. I also think that might be going too far into the realm of knowing stuff you shouldn't necessarily know. Logically speaking it makes sense with creatures, but not always with robots.y.

Hey, sounds like a function that could be added via a new Utility part - "behavior analyzer" or something - a scut bot headed for floor trash should be easy to ID (and bonus you get to cry as you see he's headed for the only visible pair of myomer legs you need to get your movement back up but won't be able to beat him to), the commandos/highly tactical types should be increasingly harder to predict as they will both react to your moves and throw in behavior camoflaging actions...   Although some would consider themselves so badass they don't need the sissy fakes and just have external speakers to play Ride of the Valkyries and shout "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!".

[Elmzran]

I must say, this game is quite impressive. I started playing a few days ago, and have progressively gotten better. My furthest run was to Factory Level 6, I believe, though that was with Fix #1. I'm downloading Fix #4 now to see if I can improve my score.

I've played plenty of Roguelikes before, yet this is one of the few I'm actually able to get in to

[Orb]

Made it to research. Its all purplely. 

[Kyzrati]

That's why I didn't want all that info in there to begin with--there's just not enough room! I could make it a different size easily, but it'd have to remain static, and the only way to make it larger would be to have it take over some of the map space, which would reduce the visible area below the current minimum decent amount.

Then maybe a separate log window that will cover the entire screen?

Hm, I could pretty easily add a big message log that opens up over the screen (the X@COM R6 I'm sitting on already has one); then you could more easily review what's going on, though you'd have to open a window to do that, obviously.

Ah, you wanted a detailed breakdown of *everything* in the volley hit%? I'm not sure where I'd put all that info... Right now the log shows [volley] +/- [wep bonus] + [launcher bonus] - [recoil], leaving out any zeros (the -1's you see come from the small recoil values of the earlier weapons).

Well, just label it like '60-10(s)-15(h)-4(r)+12(t)' and so forth, where s - target size, h - heat, t - targeting computer or something like that.

That could potentially be a very, very long string... lots of factors. (Also note that it wouldn't be completely accurate shown as whole numbers, since the game is using decimals.) Would definitely need a bigger log window to show all that stuff.

Edit: by the way, for consistency's sake, could you please make hits to the core be displayed as such, along with damage done?

Oh yeah, forgot about the core. I'll add it.

This is a blast - sent in a score.  Do you prefer em as attachments or can it go in the email body?

Attachments, definitely, since I save and upload the record files for everyone to peruse.

And dudes, gimlet is now owning you all.

Also, one request on the default targeting - what is the current criteria that it uses for targeting order?  Could you PLEASE have it default to enemies with weapons first instead of some useless engineer 20 squares away?  Ideally in order of "my best to hit %" or "most damaged" or "biggest threat" or all possibilities with a toggle to select

Yeah, right now it's simply picking the upper-left-most robot, and cycles through them in rows. I agree, this change is needed.

ED: 
2nd request - a mode for cursor on inventory only.  Although I *should* get used to the ctrl/alt stuff fairly soon, I'm still finding it easier to use the mouse with the invisible cursor :p

Wow, using the mouse with the invisible cursor, now there's a hybrid I didn't expect
I'll see about an inventory only cursor mode.

3rd request - some kind of swap function, ideally a "swap from ground" too so I don't have to do the "drop item, drop equipped item, pick up new item, equip new item, pick up inventory item" dance for the thousandth time especially under fire   It should probably take a *little* longer than a simple item equip, but not the 3 to 6 (with movement) turns that is required now...

Yeah, that's definitely annoying. I'll see if I can fit it into the control scheme (and code it without breaking the already fragile game... I made a lot of assumptions during the 7DRLC to finish the game quickly, and if I can't remember all those assumptions while coding new stuff, I might break something)

Keep a rocket or grenade launcer stashed away - when in your inventory and unequipped it wont burden you, and you can deal with the speed hit for a turn or 2 to launch a rocket/grenade in order to get what you need from a sentinel before putting it back away again. Of course, the tricky bit is wounding the target, switching your explosive weapon off and finishing it as gently as possible to not waste the high value part you need.

I just saw a guardian (yellow Y) take three direct (i.e. displayed as 'hit') missile shots (plus several non-explosive shots) to the face. It's health barely got down to orange. Granted, it was in open field, so misses were less likely to damage it, but still. Explosives don't seem such a good way of speedy disposal of individual enemies. Oh, and the items are damaged when they are still attached to the enemy and explosives damage them just as much as usual weapons.

Yeah, until you get the really powerful explosive weapons later, they aren't as reliable for taking out individual enemies, primarily because their damage spreads on targets (haven't yet added the details of how that works to the advanced player's guide). One thing you might not know is that certain robots are weak/strong against certain types of damage. If you are seeing one weapon type is not effective against a robot class, try others. You'll need a more advanced robot scan processor to find the details, though. Let me just say that using explosives on Sentries is a bad idea.

and the fact that, so long as you are within vision of ANY robot, they know where you are doesn't help.

I don't think that last part is true.

From Kyzrati:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd prefer to not give out too many specifics on how AI operates, since I don't want players gaming the system. Some of the more obvious things you'd figure out eventually though:
-Yes, they use the same sort of FOV as you, though ranges vary, so having a longer visual range than them gives you an advantage. As is, some enemies have a longer visual range than your default. I was considering adding some sort of visual cue indicating whether a given robot has noticed, but didn't get a chance to do that yet. I also think that might be going too far into the realm of knowing stuff you shouldn't necessarily know. Logically speaking it makes sense with creatures, but not always with robots.
-Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you! You don't want a Watcher class robot running around spotting you every few turns and alerting all his friends... They always follow set patrol paths, though, so if you have sensors which can distinguish robots out of view you can avoid them pretty easily.

The important part in that: Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you!

AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...

I've had several instances where there's a "city block" style area where there's a closed off area surrounded on all four sides by corridors.  I've run around them only to find the enemy is coming up the other way to intercept me.  They're either tracking me or have really good AI.

They'll split up and come at you from different directions, yeah, but the stupid ones can't go too far since they'll lose track of you. The smart ones, well, they're dangerous what can I say.

From Kyzrati:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was considering adding some sort of visual cue indicating whether a given robot has noticed, but didn't get a chance to do that yet. I also think that might be going too far into the realm of knowing stuff you shouldn't necessarily know. Logically speaking it makes sense with creatures, but not always with robots.y.

Hey, sounds like a function that could be added via a new Utility part - "behavior analyzer" or something - a scut bot headed for floor trash should be easy to ID (and bonus you get to cry as you see he's headed for the only visible pair of myomer legs you need to get your movement back up but won't be able to beat him to), the commandos/highly tactical types should be increasingly harder to predict as they will both react to your moves and throw in behavior camoflaging actions...   Although some would consider themselves so badass they don't need the sissy fakes and just have external speakers to play Ride of the Valkyries and shout "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!".

I love that description
Good idea on the new util. I'll add it to the list (I've got several I didn't have time to implement).

Made it to research. Its all purplely. 

You sir, are the first person to report such a success. I am impressed.

If everyone was making it to Research, the game wouldn't be very well balanced now would it? That's why the Factory isn't so easy. Now if you can beat Research, then you're approaching Cogmind awesomeness.

Really though, if you can acquire and maintain a good set of parts the late game actually gets *easier* since you have so many parts which can provide you with very deadly/effective combinations.

I must say, this game is quite impressive. I started playing a few days ago, and have progressively gotten better. My furthest run was to Factory Level 6, I believe, though that was with Fix #1. I'm downloading Fix #4 now to see if I can improve my score.

I've played plenty of Roguelikes before, yet this is one of the few I'm actually able to get in to

I am very happy to hear that!

[Knirisk]

and the fact that, so long as you are within vision of ANY robot, they know where you are doesn't help.

I don't think that last part is true.

From Kyzrati:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd prefer to not give out too many specifics on how AI operates, since I don't want players gaming the system. Some of the more obvious things you'd figure out eventually though:
-Yes, they use the same sort of FOV as you, though ranges vary, so having a longer visual range than them gives you an advantage. As is, some enemies have a longer visual range than your default. I was considering adding some sort of visual cue indicating whether a given robot has noticed, but didn't get a chance to do that yet. I also think that might be going too far into the realm of knowing stuff you shouldn't necessarily know. Logically speaking it makes sense with creatures, but not always with robots.
-Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you! You don't want a Watcher class robot running around spotting you every few turns and alerting all his friends... They always follow set patrol paths, though, so if you have sensors which can distinguish robots out of view you can avoid them pretty easily.

The important part in that: Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you!

AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...

Argh. So, can serfs alert nearby guards, then, without actually signaling the alarm like a watcher? Because in one game, I did have sensors equipped. In fact, I ran away and hid in the corner of a small room hoping that they'd patrol right past, since I could see them. Then a serf comes in and they swarm kill me.

[Dariush]

Made it to research. Its all purplely. 

How?! Which build did you use and which parts did you find?

Hm, I could pretty easily add a big message log that opens up over the screen (the X@COM R6 I'm sitting on already has one); then you could more easily review what's going on, though you'd have to open a window to do that, obviously.

That's what I meant.

That could potentially be a very, very long string... lots of factors. (Also note that it wouldn't be completely accurate shown as whole numbers, since the game is using decimals.) Would definitely need a bigger log window to show all that stuff.

Well, maybe then make it possible to remove some of those factors?

Wow, using the mouse with the invisible cursor, now there's a hybrid I didn't expect

That's what I'm doing too, mostly because I don't know of any way to scroll the inventory via keyboard.

Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...

To use sensors you have to find a sensor array and a processor and they take up two utility slots while being far less of a priority than storage tanks or targeting computers. So it's no wonder people prefer to use their visual processing.

Also, I found that some utilities are faaaaar too specialized to be of any use. For example, core heat shield: it only prevents heat damage, only to the core and only in 40% of cases. That's ridiculous. At the very least it should be something like 80% if not all 100%.

[xDarkz]

Um... WOW. The ASCII in this game just boggles my mind! I'm going to try and figure out how to play the XCOMRL too, but it's a little harder than I'd like it to be

Edit: Did I mention how in love I am with the ASCII particle effects?

[Dariush]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Note the +20% bonus from computers)

Now accepting bets on how long I will last.

***

Okay, I died. Endless swarms of programmers, sentries and grunts ahoy.

[Toaster]

AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...

I've had several instances where there's a "city block" style area where there's a closed off area surrounded on all four sides by corridors.  I've run around them only to find the enemy is coming up the other way to intercept me.  They're either tracking me or have really good AI.

They'll split up and come at you from different directions, yeah, but the stupid ones can't go too far since they'll lose track of you. The smart ones, well, they're dangerous what can I say.

I got a 20something range scanner once with interpreter- it was pretty awesome.  Still got killed, though.

And that makes sense- clever bastards.

[gimlet]

To use sensors you have to find a sensor array and a processor and they take up two utility slots while being far less of a priority than storage tanks or targeting computers. So it's no wonder people prefer to use their visual processing.

I just did a looong level's worth that started with this - I was a big packrat coming up from Factory/3 with 2 huge storages full of engines, legs, armor and good stuff I found  (especially the extra Advanced Targeting and Heavy EMP Shotguns/Improved Pulse Rifles) that I was able to drop off in an isolated room as an initial replenishment stash.  I had found an "advanced scanner array" that spots all enemies within 18 tiles, whee!  And used that to sweep back and forth and nail all the annoying scavengers before they could get to my stuff.   I'd swap in the decoder when there was a group of enemies to see if they were dangerous, if not I'd wade in and kill em, if dangerous I'd wait til they separated a bit and then dance in and pick off a couple before retreating.  A few times I got swarmed and most of my equipment blown off, then if I couldn't find equipment during the retreat I'd fight a running battle back to my stash and re-equip quickly and take out the enemies as they came through the door.   

I cleared off about 80% of the level, but still got killed 'cause I pushed it a bit too far and got swarmed and cored.  I dunno if I recommend this as a strategy, but as a change of pace it was fun because I felt like I was more in control.  Unfortunately it crashed as I died - pretty sure it was a p hitting me with something but I was tired and wasn't looking real close.

Also, I found that some utilities are faaaaar too specialized to be of any use. For example, core heat shield: it only prevents heat damage, only to the core and only in 40% of cases. That's ridiculous. At the very least it should be something like 80% if not all 100%.

"Specialized utilities" - yeah, but remember that these aren't designed to be most useful to your robot, they were part of a robot designed for some other purpose that, when attached to your robot, has these specific characteristics.  Whether they're useful or not at any point in time is the decisions you have to make.  That being said, I also almost never equip those unless I pick one up in passing when there's nothing else better available.  Although somebody willing to do the sensor work could equip them at just the right time to fight a tough thermal-damage-dealing bot spotted on the sensors.

[Orb]

Made it to research. Its all purplely. 

How?! Which build did you use and which parts did you find?

Well, somewhere along the way I found an experimental radar system. It provided 80 tile radar or some other ridiculous number. Essentially, you can see the entire screen. From there, I tried equipping flight units, but I could never find more than one hover/flight, making it rather useless. So I stuck with the rather fast basic hover, when you don't have any propulsion.

From there, it was a simple act of dodging everything. Sometimes I threw on some light armor, but most of the time it was bum rushing past enemies. At one point I lost my radar(lv 7 I believe), but I got lucky enough to reach 8.

Essentially, I never got bogged down. Being faster than your enemies makes that easy. I always carried a -very- heavy launcher weapon to get out of tight spots.

[Kyzrati]

Fix5 is here! As usual it's on the files page.

You guys are going to love this one...

* FIX: Some hit% components incorrectly reported in manual
* MOD: Robot info shows their current relative speed
* MOD: Verbose log mode also reports core hits/damage
* MOD: Volley readout highlights energy/matter in red if insufficient for currently selected weapons
* NEW: Even higher log verbosity setting
* NEW: Set auto-target preference
* NEW: Warning message and sound when Cogmind heat reaches more dangerous levels
* NEW: Fast attach action (attach an item directly from ground, bypassing inventory)
* NEW: Part auto-activation

So you get a whole new action which is sure to help, and some good options to boot. Fast attachment combined with auto-activation should speed things up significantly.

I STRONGLY encourage everyone to get this fix (I know a fair number of you haven't been updating every fix, and some are still using crash-prone old versions). Besides all the helpful changes and additions, another reason to upgrade is only with this latest version will you be eligible for some of the potential notable achievements that will be determined by the end of the first competition. (Normal scores are still valid, as usual.)

I don't have time to read what you guys have posted today--time for bed. I'll check it out later.

EDIT: I rushed this out without any extensive testing, so if the new actions crash something, tell me and I'll fix it tomorrow. They seem to work fine, though.

[Dariush]

Orb, which propulsion did you use?

Yay for fix! YAY FOR LACK OF PERCENTAGES!

_{Could we pleeeease have full screen log window now? And 'closest enemy' setting for auto-targeting. And an option to fast-swap an equipped item and an item in my inventory. And a way to save all the options I have to reset every game. And a way to see the detailed percentages before firing.Then my arrogant face will be happy. ^_^}

Oh hey, first crash. Several enemies were on the screen, specifically a pest and an engineer. I pressed x, then tab twice. Either after the first or the second tab the game crashed.

Also, even with advanced stats, the enemy speed is still displayed in percents.

Also, it would be awesome if for future versions you greatly lessened the number of utilities, combining their functions. For example, a basic sensor array and a single type of processor that fully identifies the object, because processors that merely tell you the size of the target are... not exactly useful.

Bugs ahoy!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That was an unidentified fast-attached gun, by the way. And after I tried to remove it (dunno whether I had space in inventory) the game crashed. Okay, no more Cogmind for me until Fix6.

[Toaster]

Fast attach sounds tasty.  I'll update as soon as I finish this game.

Speaking of this game...



Energy is a hell of a problem, but at least I can turn on the weight units and/or ECM.