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[Dutchling]

I don't really see how people can get upset by a motto on their dollars. The Dutch Euro coins says 'God be with us' and I've never heard anyone complain about that.

[varnish]

I don't want to be rude, but I am tired of the "why do you care about that" thing.

Look at it this way. As several people have pointed out, the motto as it stands is deliberately exclusionary. It ignores the fact that, as I said, America is a secular nation with a secular constitution. It values the needs of a Christian majority over those of the many, many religious minorities that live in the country. It is a constant insult to those who believe that the government should have no religious standpoint.

It's not the most important thing, I know. And if you're from another country, and don't really care, that's fine. But I think it's worth addressing these things, at least.

((I misspelled religious every time it typed it, I'm just going to admit that right now. Tired.))

[GlyphGryph]

Dutchling, I don't really care except... it's not our motto.

In fact, it pretty much destroyed general knowledge of our motto.

It's a new fangled perversion of the best parts of our overall not so great history, all to flip the bird to the russkies, atheists, communists and socialists. It is, in many ways, a call to war.

I couldn't care less about the god reference so much as its history, what it replaced, and why it was put there.

[Heron TSG]

But honestly, stop finding any mention of god offensive. It was like those atheists unblessing highways or boycotting Christmas. Seriously, accept that Christianity was a big part of your culture. Yes we are all smarter now and do not need it, but accept that it has influenced how people thought for many centuries, and appreciate that you have moved above that.

...Are you seriously saying that Atheists stop being such sticks in the mud and just celebrate the birthday of a Christian religious figure like everyone else? Because if so, I don't think you understand what atheists are. (Personally, I haven't celebrated Christmas in... 8 years?) And the motto is not part of our culture half so much as E Pluribus Unum is. This one just showed up because we hated the 'godless commies' of the USSR. Would you personally prefer that that legacy carries on? I would personally prefer keeping the one that not only represents the states joining together, but the people in them. A motto is supposed to be something that inspires unity, not to alienate the 20-35% (statistics vary) of the population that isn't Christian, Islamic, or Jewish.

[Dutchling]

Well, this seems like one of those cases where someone found a solution to a problem what never actually was a problem at all. If something is a declaration of war to a whole lot of people and nobody cares than there is no problem.

But for all I know Americans actually care about what's on your money and non-theists actually feel insulted by their cash/government.

[Heron TSG]

If it can be fixed reasonably easily, I see no reason not to fix the currency.

If something is a declaration of war to a whole lot of people and nobody cares than there is no problem.

When it was changed to In God we Trust, it was already a declaration of philosophical war. Both to the secular Soviet Union and to those who were marginalized by the motto.

"Hey, we're good a good Christian nation, unlike those commie bastards! _{Hey, shut up over there, we're all Christians!}

The money is not the issue, the issue is that it's the most visible appearance of a motto that really shouldn't exist.

non-theists actually feel insulted by their cash/government.

Well, definitely yes to the second, but as far as I know my money hasn't attempted to slay any civil rights yet.

[Dutchling]

What I was wondering was whether or not people actively feel insulted/marginalized by this motto before this petition started. That is something I very much doubt.

But obviously if there are a significant amount of people who do, I wouldn't see a reason to not change that motto. Especially as gradually replacing the currency doesn't seem like a lot of trouble to me.

[Trapezohedron]

Well, if the motto changes, be prepared to make additional bucks by selling the 'In God we trust's to collectors.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Beyond that, you could cite the founding fathers back at the right-wing folk, their pundits tend to go into conniptions when that happens.

Forget citing the founding fathers at them, we could cite Jesus at them.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

The story concerning this is even about money.

As for banning prayer in schools, that sounded a bit pointless at first, but I could just see my younger self using excessive piety as an excuse to get out of boring classwork whilst praying... So I can kinda see why you guys did that. I probably would've tried that at some point if I'd ever gone to a religious school.

You're not understanding it correctly. The right-wing would actually love for you to believe that praying is banned in schools. What's banned is school endorsement or coercion to prayer. The children can pray in school as much as they want. But they generally don't.

[Svarte Troner]

I used to cross out God and wright ODIN or the names of other pagan gods instead.
^{_{And by used to I mean I probably did it a few times when I was like 15.}}

Maybe if the Christians refuse to change it, I'll start writing in Allah Satan! we trust...

edit: Ok Wilfor, please don't tell me there are any Christians who worship Satan (Well I guess technically they do).

[Willfor]

I used to cross out God and wright ODIN or the names of other pagan gods instead.
^{_{And by used to I mean I probably did it a few times when I was like 15.}}

Maybe if the Christians refuse to change it, I'll start writing in Allah we trust...

There are Christians even in America who use Allah in reference to the Christian God. I will admit that it's a rather small group, but this does not negate its existence, nor their inability to be offended by this.

[scriver]

Why would they use the Arabic word for God anyway? I mean, unless they're Arab Christians, of course.

(obviously didn't watch the video, I'm on my phone)

[Willfor]

His parents were Sufi Muslim when he was growing up, but he converted to Christianity.

[Bauglir]

It's a minor representation of a larger trend I find objectionable. Changing it would be nice, and I'm all for it, but I think the shitstorm the stereotypical religious right is going to kick up over it would be better reserved for more important situations where they can't also call it nitpicking or distracting from "real issues" (the latter of which is arguably accurate, even). So, it's a good thing, but for purely pragmatic reasons I figure it's probably something to hold off on. When we've got Creationism properly relegated to philosophy classes and a health system that isn't equivalent to just slapping women in the face every minute of every day, this might be a decent next target.

[GlyphGryph]

On the other hand, it might be worth fighting over simply because its something we can "compromise" on to get what we want. Essentially, use the Republican strategy of jumping on little things to let the bigger things slide by due to distracted attention that liberals are so damned terrible at.

I think starting a fight over it could well be worth it as long as we aren't too focused on winning the fight.