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[rtg593]

"the Giant cave spiders have hatched!"

Aw, crap... :p

Does that mean I'm wrong, or is that a hypothetical scenario?

I was picturing a eggsack filled with a thousand eggs hatching into wild giant cave spiders... Inside the fort. If the fps didn't get you... :p

[Intro1827]

That's only making me sad that it can't happen =/

[NW_Kohaku]

You only need to add a [CHILD] token, don't you?  (well, if you want thousands of children, a littersize, too) It's not that hard to mod in...

[Intro1827]

Yeah, I know it's not hard, but still... There's something different about vanilla. Which other animals are missing [CHILD], if any?

[RabblerouserGT]

I think exotics might breed.

If I recall, Toady said that animals BORN into captivity have less of a chance of reverting to wild animals.
It was either in the main page dev logs or somewhere in the Future of the Fortress stuff.

[NW_Kohaku]

Yeah, I know it's not hard, but still... There's something different about vanilla. Which other animals are missing [CHILD], if any?

It looks like a lot of insects do.

None of the creature_bug_slug_new.txt creatures have a child tag, even the "damselfly man" creatures. 

[KodKod]

A lot of the underground critters lack a child tag, but the overwhelming majority of above-ground critters have one, with notable exceptions including the Giant Desert Scorpion.

[jaxy15]

Naked mole dogs have a child tag, why haven't mine given birth yet?

[Manveru Taurënér]

A domestic animal that has never been in contact with humans will to a large degree return to a wild/feral state, albeit less aggressive overall than their wild ancestor.  Chicks or poults etc. born locked away and left without any contact with dwarves should definitely become at least semi-wild or similar in my opinion, although it's hard to say if this is something intented or not in this instance without knowing the exact mechanics :>

The thing about domestication is that domestic species are typically entirely different species of creatures from their wild counterparts. 

Species like corn, for example, look nothing like the original long grasses they were bred from.  A cow would never survive in the wild, as it's been bred into being little more than a stomach on legs. 

A chicken, likewise, would probably never be capable of becoming "wild", because its innate nature has been overwritten into being a creature that can only live on farms. 

Dogs, you might make a case for them going back into being wild.  Some of them, anyway, those tiny toy dogs are going to die, and probably so are the big water dogs and even the pit bulls, but the general "mutt" types of dogs are going to live and possibly return to being wild. 

Still, it takes far more than a single generation to be able to do that, and anyway, all of that is beside the most important point, and that is:

[PET] creatures are meant to always be tame.  As in, Toady has said that they should never go untame, and that there will be a solid dividing line between the totally domesticated-over-centuries creatures that should never untame, and the exotics you tame that can never become fully and completely tamed, because that [PET] Token is an innate aspect of their own nature as a creature.

Weeell, that also sort of depends on how this works inside the dwarf universe. Are these animals gifted to the dwarves by the gods when descending to the world (or however that works) or are they supposed to be captured wild by dwarves at the start of world gen and then kept as pets for the duration of the worlds history?

But yeah, I guess it might be a bit too much work to have to keep your domestic animals trained as well, even though I personally wouldn't mind some creatures at least such as dogs and cats to be able to go feral if left alone enough generations ^^

[NW_Kohaku]

Weeell, that also sort of depends on how this works inside the dwarf universe. Are these animals gifted to the dwarves by the gods when descending to the world (or however that works) or are they supposed to be captured wild by dwarves at the start of world gen and then kept as pets for the duration of the worlds history?

I think for the interests of (in)sanity, we have a world that is created by the gods with the effects of a few billion years of erosion and continental drift already occurring, and light from the stars already enroute. 

That is, evolution exists, but it was just arbitrarily started at the year 0 as if it had always existed for a billion years, and creatures exist at year 0 as if they had been born 58 years before the creation of the world.

In this vein, dogs were created already domesticated by dwarves as if they had been domesticated for tens of thousands of years.

[FrisianDude]

Besides that, one can assume with very reasonable certainty that the first dogs were born rather before written or even oral history.

[nightwhips]

By the way, nightwhips, were your chickens from embark, as well?  Or did you trade for them?

I traded for them. This was an evil embark, at least in part, and I wasn't sure of the exact layout, so I didn't bring any animals with, but the wagon-pullers.

[NW_Kohaku]

If this occurs to chickens and turkeys, but not to dogs, and occurs regardless of whether they were embark creatures, then we be able to narrow this down as a case of purely egg-laying creatures having this problem, then.  Provided, of course, there are no further examples that provide contradictory evidence.

[BigFatStupidHead]

I seem to have my trainer hanging out at the bottom of my fort, with a "Train Impala" task. None of the Impala are down there, and he's been doing it for long enough to get thirsty. Kobolds just spooked the animals, so trainers might act buggy if their animal is not where they expect it to be.

EDIT:Assigning another trainer seems to have gotten him moving again.

[RAKninja]

much of the discussion in this thread could have been answered with a look in file changes.txt and release notes.txt.

Release notes for 0.34.06 (March 23, 2012):

Here is the next one!  The main features are the animal training and clothing changes.  You can get at the animal training options from the 'z' animal tab.

New stuff
   (*) Each civilization has animal training familiarity based on locale/journeys/domestication
   (*) Your site picks up training knowledge as you go
   (*) Your civilization picks it up from you if merchants survive
   (*) Animals have training status which can deteriorate
   (*) Added tools to the arena
   (*) Added text site color key for town map export

Major bug fixes
   (*) Fixed a save corruption from saving at the moment of trade meetings
   (*) Animals that have killed/attacked civ members no longer attack when trained
   (*) Allowed people to pick up their own owned clothes
   (*) Stopped sever victims from obsessing over lost clothes
   (*) Stopped failed pickup job from keeping item in uniform plan
   (*) Pickup equipment spam handled
   (*) Workshop clutter changed

Other bug fixes/tweaks
   (*) Evil/good trees/shrubs are back
   (*) Made ownership lapse for things that have been thrown away -- can take about 10-20 days
   (*) Clothing deterioration in refuse pile
   (*) Training jobs for large animals decoupled from kennels -- assign trainers in animal screen
   (*) Animals being trained wander around less
   (*) Allowed selection of war/hunting animals
   (*) Stopped young animals from lashing out
   (*) Decreased vampire frequency for fort migration
   (*) Fixed metal/bone helm artifacts (Quietust)
   (*) Fixed problems with socks going on the same foot
   (*) Champion can be appointed, fixed various circumstances causing failed position activations
   (*) Tool weights fixed (at least to align with raws)
   (*) Material size respected in standard tool construction jobs
   (*) Reintroduced negative thoughts from clothing, nakedness thoughts take a few weeks
   (*) Stopped zillions of chat thoughts from being stacked up
   (*) Stopped critters from breaking away from being led in an inconsistent way
   (*) Various string changes for TrueType (will also affect other modes in hopefully minor ways)

granted, the rest of the discussion has been talk of !!SCIENCE!! discovering how this all works.