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Author Topic: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?  (Read 6679 times)

RabblerouserGT

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What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« on: March 23, 2012, 09:34:33 am »

What I'm looking for is something comparable to the stuff in the quickstart guide since I haven't really gotten used to adventure mode yet.

The quickstart guide says to gen worlds like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The problem I'm encountering is I seem to always get worlds with two distinct land masses. I was hoping for something more like a giant continent. Something where I don't have to swim the English Channel to get to another city.
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Derge

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 10:07:21 am »

For adventuring I use an advanced param set that makes worlds like this. You can tweak it to personal taste.



(just paste over a premade world in world_gen.txt)

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:SMALL ISLAND+]
   [DIM:129:65]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1274]
   [END_YEAR:1050]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:2:85]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:800:800]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
   [TEMPERATURE:45:70:200:200]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:4:2:0:1:0:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:2500]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:40]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:1]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:40]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:28]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:24]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:24]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:24]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:24]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:28]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:24]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:24]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:6:63:0]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:60:630:0]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:3]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:4]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:66:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:66:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:264:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:528:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:3000:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:16:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:33:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:528:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:528:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
   [RIVER_MINS:1:1]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:40]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
   [SITE_CAP:550]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:4000:500:300]
   [RAIN_RANGES:528:1056:528]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:528:1056:528]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:528:1056:528]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:528:1056:528]
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 10:32:25 am »

Personally, I like to crank up all the variances.  It makes regions with the same biome smaller.  I do this mostly for fortress mode purposes, because it ups my chances of getting unusual biomes right next to each other to embark upon, however, it has advantages in Adventure Mode, too - in that oceans, mountain ranges, deserts, forests, etc. are not just giant, homogenous blocks, and you can cross a desert in less than a day. 

Consider pushing your variances up to numbers like 800 or 1200. 

I would also recommend doing things like the weighted chances of elevations being 1:2:3:2:1 or something, so that you have less mountain and ocean biomes.  Reduce the number of necessary peaks so that you don't get a lot of world rejects.  In fact, I reduce most of the "minimum" whatevers to at least half, if not outright elimination, so that I can get more strange worlds.  (Dwarves don't need large mountain ranges, they need the edges of mountain ranges.  They expand best with elevation variances of 1200 or so, where they can hop from one mountain range to another, instead of being locked into their initial mountains.)

Other things you might want to fudge on the weights is savagery or evil - remember that savage or evil biomes preclude civs, however.  You might want to up the target number of small evil biomes, though, so that you don't wind up with just giant mountain ranges or oceans being evil, and can get some small evil deserts and such pock-marking the land.

Likewise, remember that high rainfall areas favor elven expansion, and low rainfall favors human expansion, so adjust those accordingly. 

Mineral scarcity won't matter too much for adventure mode, but you might as well give it a low number, like 1000.

I recommend removing some of the cavern layers, even potentially all the cavern layers, magma sea, and lowest layer, if you aren't planning on going down there.  Caverns are generally huge and boring for adventure mode, and you have little chance to go down there or do anything when you actually get there, anyway.

Push up your megabeast cave and semimegabeast cave numbers.  Gen for lower amounts of time, like 100 or 150 years - just enough to give the cities a little time to build up, but they always crash down in population eventually, and the game is bugged right now regarding reclaiming the houses of dead worldgen characters.

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RabblerouserGT

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 10:54:42 am »

Most of that went over my head.

I'm a worldgen parameters newb. I don't really know what numbers count as "high" or "low" for any of the numerous parameters.
I was hoping for something more like a premade param set.
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Kogut

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 11:17:52 am »

Most of that went over my head.

I'm a worldgen parameters newb. I don't really know what numbers count as "high" or "low" for any of the numerous parameters.
I was hoping for something more like a premade param set.
For adventuring I use an advanced param set that makes worlds like this. You can tweak it to personal taste.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(just paste over a premade world in world_gen.txt)

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:SMALL ISLAND+]
   [DIM:129:65]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1274]
   [END_YEAR:1050]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:2:85]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:800:800]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
   [TEMPERATURE:45:70:200:200]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:4:2:0:1:0:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:2500]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:40]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:1]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:40]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:28]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:24]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:24]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:24]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:24]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:28]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:24]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:24]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:6:63:0]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:60:630:0]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:3]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:4]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:66:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:66:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:264:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:528:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:3000:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:16:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:33:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:528:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:528:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
   [RIVER_MINS:1:1]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:40]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
   [SITE_CAP:550]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:4000:500:300]
   [RAIN_RANGES:528:1056:528]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:528:1056:528]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:528:1056:528]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:528:1056:528]
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RabblerouserGT

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2012, 11:31:13 am »

That was more a reply to NW_Kohaku.
I wasn't sure if the params he'd posted were like he'd posted. Since, well, his reasoning sounds pretty awesome. No giant mountain ranges, especially. That sounds awesome.
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orius

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 01:35:08 pm »

Turn down the number of ocean edges in the advanced parameters too, and start with one of the region templates as opposed to one of the islands.  You can't travel by sea, so you don't want a lot of oceans crapping up the map.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 03:04:10 pm »

That was more a reply to NW_Kohaku.
I wasn't sure if the params he'd posted were like he'd posted. Since, well, his reasoning sounds pretty awesome. No giant mountain ranges, especially. That sounds awesome.

I find learning the tricky stuff so you can do it yourself is more fun, but I know some people just want to get their hands dirty in the stuff they enjoy most.  To each their own. 

If you want to learn, there's only one way to learn what they mean: 

Open up DF, go to generate world with advance parameters, and start looking at all the dials you can fiddle with.

(Well, OK, two ways, here's the wiki link.)

The first page of advanced worldgen stuff is mostly "Seeds" - you can export the seed of an already-generated world, and punch that in there in order to recreate the world with the same random numbers as the world you previously created.  If you didn't change anything else, this will regenerate the exact same world.  If you did change things, this will come out pretty differently once you hit the point where the things you changed matter.  (You can also do things like generate a world, see some important event you want to be a part of happened at year 214, and then generate the exact same world seed and stop it at the year 214, for example.)

You might want to fiddle with the End Year (when worldgen stops) because the game will possibly have more werebeasts in later years, but cities are more likely to be abandoned in later years, and there will be greater diversity of megabeasts the earlier in worldgen you stop.  Generally, it's best to give cities just enough time to rise, and not enough time to decline from too many generations dying out, so around 150 years of worldgen is enough.

Worldgen will also be stopped when the game detects "too many dead megabeasts", although you can change that (and I typically tell it never to check for megabeast worldgen stoppage by setting that value to -1).

After that, you get into a set of "variance" numbers.

They go in this order:
Elevation (elevations below 100 are oceans, elevations above 300 are mountains)
Temperature (obvious - whether it's freezing to scorching is determined by this.  Odd things happen when you have high x-variance in temperature - it gets colder the further east you go until suddenly it gets hot again!)
Rainfall (determines if you get deserts/grasslands/badlands, or forests/swamps, depending on drainage.)(See this page for details.)
Drainage (again, determines biomes)
Volcanism (not important to adventurers, but this makes more volcanos and igneous stone layers appear if it is high, and sedimentary layers if it is low)
Savagery (Makes savage areas appear.  Towns do not appear in savage regions, but savage regions have more fun things to kill.  Make this highly variable and you will find some savage regions nearby with fun things to kill even peaceful town regions.)

Variances are important in determining how "jumbled up" the worldmap looks.  Low variances like 200 will result in a world map with only a single huge mountain range and single huge ocean, each taking up about a third of the world.  Very high variances like 2000 or more will result in features and biomes so small that they practically fit in single region tiles, and "oceans" the size of lakes.  Variances of around 800 or 1200 will give you much more variable terrain.


Then you get mesh sizes.  You need to make the mesh size something other than ignore, or you don't get to play with weights.  The smaller the mesh size, the more variability there is.

Weights - These are broken into five equal chunks, and you can "weight" them to be more or less common.  So, for elevation, if you go 1:2:3:2:1, then what you will end up with is elevations between 0 and 20% of the maximum (which, if you leave the minimum elevation as 1 and maximum as 400, means elevations from 1 to 80, with 100 still being sea-level, so all of this elevation range will be underwater) only 1/9th of the time. 

Each point of weight adds an equal chance to be selected, so if you have 1:1:1:1:4, then there's a 1/2 chance that the game will make terrain within the top 20% of the minimum/maximum range, and only a 1/8th chance of any other quintile inside that minimum/maximum range.

Or, to put it in simpler terms, if you want lots more volcanos, make vulcanism look like this:

Volcanism Mesh Size: 2x2
  Volcanism Weighted Range (0-20):  1
  Volcanism Weighted Range (20-40):  1
  Volcanism Weighted Range (40-60):  1
  Volcanism Weighted Range (60-80):  1
  Volcanism Weighted Range (80-100):  10

Restraint should be advised, however, as volcanism prevents sedimentary layers from appearing, and you need those for your limestone layers filled with coal and hemitite.  (More important if you are in Fortress Mode, obviously.) As such, I tend to make Volcanism ranges like 10:1:1:1:12, so that I have only extremes.



Other bits:

Megabeast caves determine how many megabeasts the game starts with - add more to get more dragons and stuff to kill, but be careful, as too many means everyone will get eaten by dragons before the game starts.

The whatever creature types or rain types or region syndromes all relate to how many procedurally generated creature types there will be.  This only determines how many kinds of these creatures there will be, not how common they are. 



After that, you start getting into "minimum of this type of region" stuff.  They exist to make sure there are "just the right amount" of forests and grasslands and other biomes.  I like to remove these entirely by setting them down to ignore, so that I can sometimes get really weird places, like worlds with very few forests.  It also reduces the amount of rejections your worlds will face, since it's not rejecting anything anymore.

Finally, there's amount of subregions - if you crank up your variances, this will cause tons of rejections, so set it as high as it will go.

Generally, I turn off rejections any time I don't really need them to be there.  Minimum peaks?  Nobody needs to know that there is an exactly 400 elevation peak in the world.  Turn that to 0.
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quarague

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 03:55:11 am »

just a small addition, I usally put mineral frequency to everywhere, means that most civilizations will have access to multiple metals including iron and sometimes steel so I think you are much more likely to find cool armor and weapons lying around
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Kaos

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 10:31:57 am »

@NW_Kohaku: any tips on increasing the actual number of vampire/werebeast historical figures? I'm trying a pocket patchwork world with lots of titans, but my usual pitfalls are:

* Few vampires (usually wandering or non-dwarf)
* All my werebeast are wandering (any way to get them settled)
I want vampires and werebeasts to migrate to my fort.

Created in DF v0.34.06.
Spoiler: "My world gen params" (click to show/hide)



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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 02:15:17 pm »

@NW_Kohaku: any tips on increasing the actual number of vampire/werebeast historical figures? I'm trying a pocket patchwork world with lots of titans, but my usual pitfalls are:

* Few vampires (usually wandering or non-dwarf)
* All my werebeast are wandering (any way to get them settled)
I want vampires and werebeasts to migrate to my fort.

Vampires are not present in the beginning of the game, and there is no setting you can use to directly manipulate the rate at which gods curse random profaners with vampirism. 

The only thing you can do that would reliably increase vampires or werebeast curses spreading would be to increase the number of large human towns in general. 

Currently, I believe the two largest killers of humans that you have any control over are starvation and to a lesser extent, old age, and so if you take away the need to eat from humans, they should expand more rapidly, you should get more towns with temples in them, and the more temples you have, the more temples getting profaned, and the more profaned temples, the more vampire curses for those profanities. 

Just mod eating back into humans once worldgen is done.
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Kaos

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 02:28:39 pm »

@NW_Kohaku: any tips on increasing the actual number of vampire/werebeast historical figures? I'm trying a pocket patchwork world with lots of titans, but my usual pitfalls are:

* Few vampires (usually wandering or non-dwarf)
* All my werebeast are wandering (any way to get them settled)
I want vampires and werebeasts to migrate to my fort.

Vampires are not present in the beginning of the game, and there is no setting you can use to directly manipulate the rate at which gods curse random profaners with vampirism. 

The only thing you can do that would reliably increase vampires or werebeast curses spreading would be to increase the number of large human towns in general. 

Currently, I believe the two largest killers of humans that you have any control over are starvation and to a lesser extent, old age, and so if you take away the need to eat from humans, they should expand more rapidly, you should get more towns with temples in them, and the more temples you have, the more temples getting profaned, and the more profaned temples, the more vampire curses for those profanities. 

Just mod eating back into humans once worldgen is done.
I've tried increasing the number of curses to the max and running longer histories, 500 years seem to be the sweet spot, also increased the number of civs, I'm getting worlds with reasonable werebeast amounts (a few hundreds) but most of them are wandering, maybe a handful settled and of those settled I'm lucky if one is a dwarf.


Vampires, I'm getting a few tens of them, but like 5 or so dwarves and maybe 1 settled if I'm lucky.


What does make them settle, go wandering/scouting, etc?


Of course, I'm assuming that the only way to get vampire/werebeast immigrants is having them being of your race (dwarf) and settled on one of the civs, at least those are the cases I've been able to check myself in my 34.01 fort (3 vamps, 2 settled in dwarven civs, 1 in a human town)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 02:31:34 pm by Kaos »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 02:32:40 pm »

What does make them settle, go wandering/scouting, etc?


Of course, I'm assuming that the only way to get vampire/werebeast immigrants is having them being of your race (dwarf) and settled on one of the civs, at least those are the cases I've been able to check myself in my 34.01 fort (3 vamps, 2 settled in dwarven civs, 1 in a human town)

Vampires settle when they move into a sewer, where they can't be driven out, or when they start a cult that is powerful enough not to be driven out (and maybe make the vampire a tyrant, although those can be driven out).
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Kaos

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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 03:08:37 pm »

This is my best attempt so far, patchwork pocket world, 500yo, 99 civs, access to all the civs plus 2 towers, historical figures:
377 (85 dwarves) werebeasts, 2 dead, 83 wandering
33 (5 dwarves) vampires, 3 are settled (in towns), 2 wandering

As far as I've confirmed the 3 settled dwarves are able to arrive to my fort as immigrants, not sure about the wanderers.
Since all my werebeast are wandering will I get werebeast in my fort at all?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notice I have the same number of curses for both vampires and werebeast, yet I'm getting over 10 times the number of werebeasts...

By temples do you mean shrines? this world has 86 shrines and Humans have the second largest population: 74,770 world population,  13,448 Dwarves,  11,123 Humans.


By the way I'm checking all this with Legends Viewer.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 03:17:39 pm by Kaos »
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Re: What are good worldgen parameters for Adv Mode?
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 03:23:06 pm »

The number of different types of curses makes no difference.  In fact, there's only one kind of vampire at all, right now.  Putting any numbers other than 0 make no difference when the game asks you what number of vampire curses you want.

Toady simply hasn't added any sort of worldgen parameters that determines vampire cursing rate outright, so the most you can do is increase the total population of the world, total number of shrines/temples, and hope for more profanings.

As for werewolves, I think you honestly get more of those just trying to trap guys coming in as an ambusher during a full moon than as a migrant.  Try setting cage traps with walls serving as obstacles to funnel creatures into the traps near the edges of your map.

Werewolves also spread through bites, which is why there are much more of them - they multiply, while vampires rarely ever do.  If you want one of your own dwarves were-ified, you might do best trying to get one of your dwarves bitten-but-not-killed.  Then spread that bite as far as possible.  If you have a fully werecritter fort, they don't attack each other.

And yes, I mean shrines.
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