Topic: The worst bug - 34.06 poll (Read 31111 times)

Kogut · « **Reply #45 on:** March 25, 2012, 04:36:00 pm »

Quote from: thvaz on March 25, 2012, 01:16:03 pm

Since 0.34.06 I didn't have any problem with bug 535, so I find it weird people are voting in it. I tried setting up squads using civilian clothes, and they would change their armor to clothes as soon as they got inactive. Tried setting them to use mail shirts and breastplates, and they would use them correctly, so the layering problem is solved. They are properly using armor stands assigned to them too. They are upgrading their armors when there is a better one available. So, which problems are people still having with equipping soldiers?

There are still mutiple open subbugs ("Weapon Racks do nothing. ", "Axedwarf with missing hand wields shield and axe in same hand. ", "Haulers try to store clothing dropped by militia, mass confusion ensues ", "Soldier fight with training weapons even with real ones equipped ", "Soldiers do not consistently carry backpacks/flasks ", "Militia with clothing assigned as equipment leave it in piles on the floor randomly ", "Player can't set the more generic uniform options, like "any headgear" ", "Soldier equipped vial of extract (golden salve) as waterskin, then added alcohol to it " etc etc)

Kogut · « **Reply #46 on:** March 25, 2012, 04:40:12 pm »

Quote from: Urist McDepravity on March 25, 2012, 04:31:21 pm

Quote
#5705 dwarf children die from embarassment at not being dressed at age 2
This one will be fixed soon, but still, I find it amusing.

Urist McDepravity commenting about naked children

Quote from: Lysabild on March 25, 2012, 03:33:58 pm

Ah jesus christ, I accidently voted on the wrong thing.

Unfortunately it is impossible to allow changing votes.

thvaz · « **Reply #47 on:** March 25, 2012, 04:48:18 pm »

Quote from: Kogut on March 25, 2012, 04:36:00 pm

Quote from: thvaz on March 25, 2012, 01:16:03 pm
Since 0.34.06 I didn't have any problem with bug 535, so I find it weird people are voting in it. I tried setting up squads using civilian clothes, and they would change their armor to clothes as soon as they got inactive. Tried setting them to use mail shirts and breastplates, and they would use them correctly, so the layering problem is solved. They are properly using armor stands assigned to them too. They are upgrading their armors when there is a better one available. So, which problems are people still having with equipping soldiers?

There are still mutiple open subbugs ("Weapon Racks do nothing. ", "Axedwarf with missing hand wields shield and axe in same hand. ", "Haulers try to store clothing dropped by militia, mass confusion ensues ", "Soldier fight with training weapons even with real ones equipped ", "Soldiers do not consistently carry backpacks/flasks ", "Militia with clothing assigned as equipment leave it in piles on the floor randomly ", "Player can't set the more generic uniform options, like "any headgear" ", "Soldier equipped vial of extract (golden salve) as waterskin, then added alcohol to it " etc etc)

I don't see how a report so general could be helping Toady. It would be better that each individual bug would be reported. That fact is that this bug is giving a idea that equipping your soldiers is thourougly bugged when this is not true. Only in very specific cases you would find some problems. I didn't try any workaround and I haven't found any of these problems in my current fortress.

NW_Kohaku · « **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2012, 04:55:06 pm »

Quote from: thvaz on March 25, 2012, 04:48:18 pm

I don't see how a report so general could be helping Toady. It would be better that each individual bug would be reported. That fact is that this bug is giving a idea that equipping your soldiers is thourougly bugged when this is not true. Only in very specific cases you would find some problems. I didn't try any workaround and I haven't found any of these problems in my current fortress.

Well, if you don't try to use weapon racks to do something, then you don't think of that as a bug. If you don't have a one-handed dwarf, you probably won't run into a bug with the dual-wielding in one hand issue.

If the complaint is that Kogut doesn't want 800 different things to vote for, having some sort of consolidated list might make some more sense.

thvaz · « **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2012, 05:00:09 pm »

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2012, 04:55:06 pm

Quote from: thvaz on March 25, 2012, 04:48:18 pm
I don't see how a report so general could be helping Toady. It would be better that each individual bug would be reported. That fact is that this bug is giving a idea that equipping your soldiers is thourougly bugged when this is not true. Only in very specific cases you would find some problems. I didn't try any workaround and I haven't found any of these problems in my current fortress.

Well, if you don't try to use weapon racks to do something, then you don't think of that as a bug. If you don't have a one-handed dwarf, you probably won't run into a bug with the dual-wielding in one hand issue.

If the complaint is that Kogut doesn't want 800 different things to vote for, having some sort of consolidated list might make some more sense.

I am not complaining, Kogut can't do anything as he isn't a moderator in the Mantis. I just think that this one is a report that was mostly fixed and it is counterproductive to keep it open instead of dividing it in more specific reports.

cephalo · « **Reply #50 on:** March 25, 2012, 07:03:09 pm »

I voted for the wrong thing too. I have something of a fetish for artifact gems, and in order to move them you have to mod the raws temporarly every time you want to stockpile them. I hate that.

Buttery_Mess · « **Reply #51 on:** March 25, 2012, 07:51:47 pm »

Regarding blunt weapons as they were brought up in this thread; blunt weapon users work well in tandem with blade users. Blunt weapons cause disabling and pain-inducing damage, which makes it easier for your bladesdwarves to move in for the kill. I prefer melee dwarves, but the truth is that a good suite of marksdwarves is what you really need to repel sieges.

runlvlzero · « **Reply #52 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:22:14 pm »

half these bugs are features, like embarking on a large enough area to go past 2gb... sheesh your not running this game on CERNS computers are you?

hermes · « **Reply #53 on:** March 25, 2012, 09:16:05 pm »

Quote from: runlvlzero on March 25, 2012, 08:22:14 pm

half these bugs are features,

Yes, or they are clearly placeholder mechanics that Toady has already explicitly talked about improving at some point, or whose revision is implicit in future dev arcs. If you narrowed down this list it's possible it might be of more use.

Kogut · « **Reply #54 on:** March 26, 2012, 01:23:36 am »

Quote from: thvaz on March 25, 2012, 04:48:18 pm

Quote from: Kogut on March 25, 2012, 04:36:00 pm
Quote from: thvaz on March 25, 2012, 01:16:03 pm
Since 0.34.06 I didn't have any problem with bug 535, so I find it weird people are voting in it. I tried setting up squads using civilian clothes, and they would change their armor to clothes as soon as they got inactive. Tried setting them to use mail shirts and breastplates, and they would use them correctly, so the layering problem is solved. They are properly using armor stands assigned to them too. They are upgrading their armors when there is a better one available. So, which problems are people still having with equipping soldiers?

There are still mutiple open subbugs ("Weapon Racks do nothing. ", "Axedwarf with missing hand wields shield and axe in same hand. ", "Haulers try to store clothing dropped by militia, mass confusion ensues ", "Soldier fight with training weapons even with real ones equipped ", "Soldiers do not consistently carry backpacks/flasks ", "Militia with clothing assigned as equipment leave it in piles on the floor randomly ", "Player can't set the more generic uniform options, like "any headgear" ", "Soldier equipped vial of extract (golden salve) as waterskin, then added alcohol to it " etc etc)

I don't see how a report so general could be helping Toady. It would be better that each individual bug would be reported. That fact is that this bug is giving a idea that equipping your soldiers is thourougly bugged when this is not true. Only in very specific cases you would find some problems. I didn't try any workaround and I haven't found any of these problems in my current fortress.

It is a parent bug, used to keep all links to "real" bugreports related to military failing to use equipment in a proper way ("parent of" 42x and "related to" 11x). Here it is used as multiple people noticed that their military is unable to handle their equipment but never investigated what exactly happens.

Quote from: runlvlzero on March 25, 2012, 08:22:14 pm

half these bugs are features, like embarking on a large enough area to go past 2gb... sheesh your not running this game on CERNS computers are you?

I listed only bugs open on the bugtracker. And your example is wrong, maybe it can pass as "known limitation" but not as a feature. Things like "Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders", "Turtles went extinct on my map (applies to all aquatic vermin)" and "Sewers inhabitants hanging out underwater near outflows" (but "(some of them stuck to walls)" is a clear bug) may pass as strange features but I see nothing more like this.

thvaz · « **Reply #55 on:** March 26, 2012, 01:34:25 am »

Quote from: Kogut on March 26, 2012, 01:23:36 am

It is a parent bug, used to keep all links to "real" bugreports related to military failing to use equipment in a proper way ("parent of" 42x and "related to" 11x). Here it is used as multiple people noticed that their military is unable to handle their equipment but never investigated what exactly happens.

I can understand this reasoning. I will see if I can put a test fortress to test all of these erratic equipping reports and provide Toady with saves, seeing as how it is well voted.

hermes · « **Reply #56 on:** March 26, 2012, 08:55:50 am »

Quote from: Kogut on March 26, 2012, 01:23:36 am

Quote from: runlvlzero on March 25, 2012, 08:22:14 pm
half these bugs are features, like embarking on a large enough area to go past 2gb... sheesh your not running this game on CERNS computers are you?
I listed only bugs open on the bugtracker. And your example is wrong, maybe it can pass as "known limitation" but not as a feature.

Well, can't speak for Toady, but designed in limitations can be features. Take TES games, every man and his dog have modded in higher resolution world maps and models to every game since Morrowind, so why haven't Bethesda included them in the game? Because they have to provide a product that is going to run and look acceptable on 99% of their customer's computers, not cater to the minority who can run such things. Or, looking at it the other way, if they shipped Skyrim with high-res textures a whole bunch of people would be miffed their computer can't run the most beautiful version of the game, so they release it separately. Thinking about your audience = design feature, not a bug.

Quote

Things like "Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders", "Turtles went extinct on my map (applies to all aquatic vermin)" and "Sewers inhabitants hanging out underwater near outflows" (but "(some of them stuck to walls)" is a clear bug) may pass as strange features but I see nothing more like this.

All of the siege related bugs can be, IMO, written off as part of the (long awaited) siege rewrite. All of the city/economic bugs can be written off as part of the (hopefully upcoming!) schedule and caravan part of the caravan-arc. In other words, we know that Toady has planned to address these things and shall be doing so in time; since it seems unlikely he'll deal with such bugs individually or on an ad-hoc basis, wouldn't it be better to take them off the list and wait for said rewrites to happen?

Urist McDepravity · « **Reply #57 on:** March 26, 2012, 09:25:00 am »

Quote from: hermes on March 26, 2012, 08:55:50 am

All of the siege related bugs can be, IMO, written off as part of the (long awaited) siege rewrite. All of the city/economic bugs can be written off as part of the (hopefully upcoming!) schedule and caravan part of the caravan-arc. In other words, we know that Toady has planned to address these things and shall be doing so in time; since it seems unlikely he'll deal with such bugs individually or on an ad-hoc basis, wouldn't it be better to take them off the list and wait for said rewrites to happen?

Point is to provide Toady some reference on desirability of fixes, so if one of "feature rewrites" get more votes than some of other bugs, then its clear indicator that its time to move on another feature-development stage.

Kogut · « **Reply #58 on:** March 26, 2012, 09:25:33 am »

Quote from: hermes on March 26, 2012, 08:55:50 am

Quote from: Kogut on March 26, 2012, 01:23:36 am
Quote from: runlvlzero on March 25, 2012, 08:22:14 pm
half these bugs are features, like embarking on a large enough area to go past 2gb... sheesh your not running this game on CERNS computers are you?
I listed only bugs open on the bugtracker. And your example is wrong, maybe it can pass as "known limitation" but not as a feature.

Well, can't speak for Toady, but designed in limitations can be features. Take TES games, every man and his dog have modded in higher resolution world maps and models to every game since Morrowind, so why haven't Bethesda included them in the game? Because they have to provide a product that is going to run and look acceptable on 99% of their customer's computers, not cater to the minority who can run such things. Or, looking at it the other way, if they shipped Skyrim with high-res textures a whole bunch of people would be miffed their computer can't run the most beautiful version of the game, so they release it separately. Thinking about your audience = design feature, not a bug.

Quote
Things like "Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders", "Turtles went extinct on my map (applies to all aquatic vermin)" and "Sewers inhabitants hanging out underwater near outflows" (but "(some of them stuck to walls)" is a clear bug) may pass as strange features but I see nothing more like this.

AFAIK this one is limited to memory management what may be changed without hurting anyone and is on TODO list.

Quote from: hermes on March 26, 2012, 08:55:50 am

All of the siege related bugs can be, IMO, written off as part of the (long awaited) siege rewrite. All of the city/economic bugs can be written off as part of the (hopefully upcoming!) schedule and caravan part of the caravan-arc. In other words, we know that Toady has planned to address these things and shall be doing so in time; since it seems unlikely he'll deal with such bugs individually or on an ad-hoc basis, wouldn't it be better to take them off the list and wait for said rewrites to happen?

a) I am not sure what may be packed to X rewrite (there is always possibility for small expansion similar to taming)
b) It may be a sign that certain important bugs are waiting for rewrite X so it may be a good idea to do it after Caravan arc (=after 2020)

HiEv · « **Reply #59 on:** March 27, 2012, 04:00:44 pm »

Marked as fixed in next version now:
Bug #3708: Ghost names that can't be engraved on a slab and nameless slab engravings
Along with related items:
Bug #5130: Magma-destroyed corpses are always "missing," can't carve slab to prevent ghosts
Bug #3611: Memorial slab with no name.

So, that knocks out the current leader in the poll.

Next version will also fix a few other problems (see here), including this bug that's new with v0.34.06:
Bug #5705: dwarf children die from embarrassment at not being dressed at age 2

News:

Poll

What is the worst bug in DF?

Author Topic: The worst bug - 34.06 poll (Read 31111 times)

Kogut

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

Kogut

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

thvaz

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

NW_Kohaku

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

thvaz

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

cephalo

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

Buttery_Mess

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

runlvlzero

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

hermes

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

Kogut

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

thvaz

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

hermes

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

Urist McDepravity

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

Kogut

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll

HiEv

Re: The worst bug - 34.06 poll