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Author Topic: The Great Heavy Metal Thread  (Read 148992 times)

XXSockXX

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #510 on: May 28, 2013, 01:33:19 pm »

What's the deal of this, today? Rebellious loud music which causes, and whose artists go on to do, what exactly? I'd be curious to know how/whether you discern between living artists and their music, to be honest.
I'm not sure if I understand that right, but if you're referring to the connection between extreme metal and questionable ideologies - that is 90% pretend attitude in my experience. You definitely have to discern between artists and music sometimes (not only in Black Metal), there are some huge idiots who make great music (The music itself might be an "aquired taste" of sorts).
In the cases of the two songs I posted, I don't know much about White Medal except that it's a guy from Yorkshire and Paysage d'Hiver is a guy who makes atmospheric songs about winter.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #511 on: May 28, 2013, 01:46:40 pm »

No, not ideology's or anything on those lines, I'm just wondering what the point is. Fun times, yes, but then what? Why bother?
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XXSockXX

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #512 on: May 28, 2013, 02:17:25 pm »

Well, the point... It's just music I like. Extreme metal was the first kind of music I really got into as a teenager. I haven't been listening to metal exclusively for a long time now, but a lot of music I enjoy has some sort of aggressive, depressive or otherwise dark/weird atmosphere. I find that very enjoyable somehow, perhaps carthatic even sometimes. As I said, it's probably an aquired taste that is difficult to explain if you're not familiar with that kind of stuff.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #513 on: May 28, 2013, 02:45:03 pm »

Alright, fair point. Simply wondering about the point of making the music outside of fun times and money.
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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #514 on: May 28, 2013, 02:45:30 pm »

No, not ideology's or anything on those lines, I'm just wondering what the point is. Fun times, yes, but then what? Why bother?

And right there, you're just asking what the point of any type of music (or art in general) is. The only answer I can think of, these things being subjective, is: because I like it. Of course, if you're looking for meaning in life, there are other thoughts on that.


On topic, was listening to Eluveitie while mowing the lawn earlier. Headbanging while pushing a mower: not recommended. Might've scared the neighbors.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #515 on: May 28, 2013, 02:50:09 pm »

Let me adjust that; why do you like the particular music you listen to? I understand art, etc, and if you don't want to discuss it i won't begrudge you much, I just wonder why endorse creations if the only point is fun and later hedonism with the profit.
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XXSockXX

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #516 on: May 28, 2013, 03:05:19 pm »

Alright, fair point. Simply wondering about the point of making the music outside of fun times and money.
"Fun times" is relative, I've had a lot of fun listening to music that would make other peoples ears bleed.
And money should never be a reason to make music, the vast majority of musicians, even in very commercially oriented genres, does not make a significant amount of money. In fact you're lucky if you're not losing money by making records.

Let me adjust that; why do you like the particular music you listen to? I understand art, etc, and if you don't want to discuss it i won't begrudge you much, I just wonder why endorse creations if the only point is fun and later hedonism with the profit.
I think a lot of why you enjoy a particular kind of art has to do with getting used to it. What you listen to at a young age influences what you'll like later.

I don't really understand the second part of your question... People tend to endorse stuff they are enthusiastic about and 99% of creators don't make significant profits with their creations.

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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #517 on: May 28, 2013, 03:10:04 pm »

Presumably the popular ones do. Metal may not be as infamous as rock in this respect but i doubt it doesn't suffer from it.
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XXSockXX

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #518 on: May 28, 2013, 03:19:00 pm »

A lot of bands I enjoy sell under the 2000 copy range. A lot of releases are very limited, some as collectors items, most due to low demand. AFAIK in this age there's no money in selling records anyway, the profit comes from merchandise or live gigs (which does not apply to black metal, as most one-man projects do not play live).

Even in more popular genres of metal there are only very very few bands who can make a living with that. You actually can read in interviews sometimes how even semi-popular groups have to keep their day jobs. Some do that on purpose, to avoid being compromised artistically.

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #519 on: May 28, 2013, 03:21:03 pm »

I've been wondering how much borderline successful artists usually make. Thanks for the information.

Also: tell me about mosh pits!
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XXSockXX

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #520 on: May 28, 2013, 03:47:10 pm »

I've been wondering how much borderline successful artists usually make. Thanks for the information.
Actually that can vary a lot. If you play many gigs and sell lots of merchandise (especially in metal people buy lots of shirts, patches, pins and stuff) you can make a decent amount of money (still not enough for a living of course).
Selling records can be much more difficult for lesser known acts. A professionally produced CD costs you a lot beforehand. 300-500 copies cost about 500 EUR to produce (producing higher numbers makes the single CD much cheaper, but who will buy 20000 copies of your no-name-album?). That does not include any cost you might have for studio time (not cheap) or equipment. Even if you can record everything with software at home, you just invested 500 EUR in a product that is very hard to sell, even with promotion.

Also: tell me about mosh pits!
I grew up with the "no mosh - no fun - no core - no trend" attitude of early 90s black metal, so I tend to not move at all at gigs. Also I cut my hair a few years ago, so moshing is no longer an option.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #521 on: May 28, 2013, 03:51:27 pm »

Well, surely you can enlighten me to the concept (including the hair) and the style of black metal you mentioned.
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XXSockXX

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #522 on: May 28, 2013, 04:06:16 pm »

Well, surely you can enlighten me to the concept (including the hair) and the style of black metal you mentioned.
To mosh you need long hair IMHO. A lot of shorthaired people do it anyways, but it's not really the same  ;). Mosh pits usually refer to the agressively jumping around and pushing each other that started in the HC punk scene and is now found everywhere, though less so on the few gigs I tend to attend.

Early 90s Black Metal was sort of a counter-movement to the more commericially successful Death Metal of that time, when lots of bands started to get slower and more "groovy" and absorbed influences from Hardcore and "normal" metal. Black metal bands tried to get "back" to a faster, rawer and darker sound and attitude. Lots of death metal fans started to wear sneakers, jeans and basball caps while black metal fans were more into the all-black, leather and spikes aesthetics. Hence the aformentioned slogan. I was musically socialized within that scene, so "no mosh" kinda stuck.
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DarkWolfXV

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #523 on: May 28, 2013, 04:39:24 pm »

What's the deal of this, today? Rebellious loud music which causes, and whose artists go on to do, what exactly? I'd be curious to know how/whether you discern between living artists and their music, to be honest.

First, im assuming you are talking about more extreme music like death metal, so here we go.

You see, the simple anwser, is that this music is higher art, only to be matched by best jazz and classical composers. But the simple anwser doesn't have an argument supporting it. Why is it higher art, you might ask? Ill quote you these lyrics, by Dan Greening of Cryptopsy (Known also as Lord Worm):

I equate its suffering with
the longevity of a ghost
Who lasts the longest
is who suffered the most

You see, these lyrics emanate with sickness. That particular song, while being heavy, brutal and all, its listen is not about headbanging and having fun. Its more about dark introspection. I mean, you can $lam the fuqq down to this music, but there is something more to it. If you could give a go lyrics to the whole album (Blasphemy Made Flesh, i warn you that they could be a bit disgusting), you would understand that this isn't music made by some idiots randomly bashing their instruments. Its calculated, but emanating with their sickness and hatred for world at the time of the album creation. Lyrics are poetic, and written by actual english teacher. The goal was to be the fastest, the most brutal, the most respected, and making an impact. The goal wasn't to earn world fame and stardom, 90% of money made was reinvested into the band, and 10% was for food and stuff while touring. Its niche. Its a fight for ideology. Not satanism and equally pointless bullshit, but something more. A statement. A statement showing us that the world is a horrible, horrible place, brutal and full of evil. But you might ask, "no shit sherlock?". Well, no shit indeed. But you know, unless you are having such mood, you wont think and care about people being brutally murdered in the streets for something as superficial as two dollars. Death metal pokes this thing in your face, in world of death metal, brutal murders,   tyrannical politicians, starving children, the problem of meaning of life, are just something normal. Very seldom pop, rap, or whatever other music explores such topics. Some people say death metal is glorifying evil. Its merely acknowledging its presence, forcing you to think. Death metal made me think. I think that after few years of listening to it, it made me a better person.

The instrumentation itself is chaotic, avant-garde (compared to other music), and sounding like noise to non-extreme metal fans. People ask what is the point of this, what is the point of barraging your eardrums with this shit? Because it is organized noise, and very pleasing to ear. There ARE melodies, there IS rhythm. Instrumental prowress is far higher than in other popular music, only to be matched as i said previously, by classical and jazz musicians. If you have even a faint knowledge of music you should know that, but if not, im here to educate you. Songwriting is far more complex. The music as whole is ambitious. It pushes boundaries. I respect ambitious people, therefore i respect death metal and im drawn to it, even. You see nowadays masses of inambitious sheep, especially amongst the young people, who dont want to do anything else but just, finish the school, just work, and just live and party. These goals are very shallow. My goals are not shallow, the goals of death metal are not shallow. Therefore, death metal is antithesis of these people. You can effectively express your anger towards those people, listening to and being metal. Of course, you are not an enemy if you dont listen to extreme music. Its more about your mindset about life than anything. Death metal gathers people with similiar mindsets. It connects them. It gives people a sense of unity under single banner. Its ironic, but it might seem religious, even. So here we come to an conclusion, written in a short TL;DR

TL;DR Death metal is not just music, its a journey, like life.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 05:17:42 pm by DarkWolfXV »
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Great Heavy Metal Thread
« Reply #524 on: May 28, 2013, 04:54:26 pm »

Good.
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