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[Tiruin]

Woah, Painiac. If you want to argue with me then let's do it right eh? First of all, I have no idea on how you did play Mafia before, if you're alluding to it based on how or why you were kicked out because of pure aggression. Obviously, protracting the fight doesn't help but I'm being straight to the point here. Now, aggression is the first expression implied from your posts as we cannot inherently convey what expressions we need to give off by text, but by analysis of wording and semantics. If not, then WHY BOTHER WITH THOSE CAPS? Alright, aggression - wrong term, being irritated - yes. Why are you irritated by my posts then?

And, I don't know if you're panicking right now, but you outright lied there.

Starting your case, it is weak. Accusing me of lurking, WIFOM and ignoring what the meaning of my post is blatantly obvious. Overly aggressive too.

Twist my posts more, scum. I didn't accused you here of lurking, you had interpreted it that way. You were spewing out WIFOM, because you made some weird readings from my post.

Now, I'm not defending Dariush here, but I see you went all jumpy

If you had read my previous mafias, as you had suggested, you should know better I am FAR from being jumpy. And that phrasing is very funny, ,,I kinda not chainsawing you now, but i am chainsawing you". If you fear about your image so much, just lurk, scum.

Then to humor you, could you link those Mafias if you want them to stand as proof? I think I see the word "lurk" in this quote here and I think you are referring to me here. If not, then you made a big SNAFU with that. Oh, and I'll admit. I am crying excessively because of your aggression. Just as I type right now, my keyboard is wet with tears falling from my eyes.

Here it seems you are (some blatant, WIFOM related accusations)

And you are crying because I am playing it aggresively? Hey, I am not insulting my every target like Dariush did. Asking questions is being aggresive to you?

Or...wait, if you meant crying as in the verbal sense, then I am doing both. I'm glad that you can't hear me though. A pity, actually.

. . .

Seriously, the last sentence in the second quote is the only thing that is keeping me from outright voting you currently. A grievous mistake, but one that leans more on the newbie side than scum for me. You give advice for someone that, and I may guess, you suspect to be scum and what to do to save his own skin. (And just going out and pushing the word 'scum' in every accusation won't help much. It's like using salt to spice up your food, in every dish. It sort of dilutes your point rather than help in general.)

About those readings, I sown them with question marks that would help to clarify the matter, but you jumped before looking and went to conclusions. Asking questions and acting aggressive is not what makes you suspicious in my eye, nor do grammar mistakes make you scum, but it is the essence of your posts (or the quality and how you pass on meaning). Right now I've gained a lot of information on you.

I don't recall explicitly suggesting to have read your previous Mafias by the way, if I did say so, please quote it for me.

On a note of that, complete attitude shift right there. Capitalizing off words to shout it out. against me

I don't plan to dring tea with possible scum?

I can't parse what you're trying to say here. You're saying I'm spouting WIFOM or are you thirsty for some nice tea?
Mod: Timecount and Votecount?

[Tiruin]

EBWOP: Great. The grammar has gone to my eyes. (No offense)

Cutting out the accusation of 'outright lying', replacing with 'implying'.

As in "And, I don't know if you're panicking right now, but you are implying it there."

[Strategia]

IronyOwl, what do you have to say about all this so far?

[Tiruin]

Extend too, if Strategia is to be believed (Not saying I don't trust your word, but the official votecount should be able to clarify it. Or Think's LurkerTracker...)

[Strategia]

Extend too, if Strategia is to be believed (Not saying I don't trust your word, but the official votecount should be able to clarify it. Or Think's LurkerTracker...)

I rechecked my list, it's actually a two-way tie, I forgot to remove McFry's vote for you. According to this, it's a tie between Dariush (by Phibes and McFry) and Painiac (by Scelly and me).

Speaking of which: Scelly, where are you?

[Dr.Phibes]

Darisuh, I dont know what a did expect. Who i thought you would say was Painiac, i wanted to know, if we now say you were a scum. Who would you be most afraid of right now and why? I think its funny you dont want to answer any questions and everyone who suspects you must be scum.
Of course you allways answer i am not scum, but it was the way you said it, not that you said it. But hey if you dont answer me, why on earth should i answer you?
I do however have an other idea why you are so mad. You are mad beacuse you think we are all noobs (rightfully so), now that we think you are scum, you are so frustrated that we cant see the " real" answer. Is that somewhat true?

Tiruin, there is no way i would actully now what roll he have. I just simply think thats hes not a scum. You can call it a hunch ( i think).

[Think0028]

Day ends 9:00 PM today. 1 request for extend, 2 more needed. Votecount coming in 2 hours.

[MagmaMcFry]

Time to lay down the post! Unvote

McFry:
Wow. I was going to believe you're evidence there in that long spoiler list. Attacking every crucial detail on why Dariush is super Scum with an S. Not saying I'm defending him here but your understanding is damned. Do you bother reading your accuser's posts other than waiving them off like fluff? Well, we had all the time in the last two days to check if what is going on is true or not. It revolves around his not answering your question. Could you re-quote it please, for everyone to verify?

Spoiler: Because it seems you don't bother to give ample time for a re-read (click to show/hide)

Oh hi there Dariush. Don't mind if I pull apart your posts.

Oooooh. Here I was being all cute and fluffy, hoping for several similarly cute and fluffy, wide-eyed and agreeable newbies, and instead I find a bunch of self-important tight-assed goatfuckers. Well then, let's play rough.

You should have told us that you were being cute and fluffy, because I sure didn't notice.

Argh, every IC has some kind of long-winded greeting except me. Oh well. I'm Dariush, and I'm extremely white and fluffy. Any interactions with me may will result in sanity, blood, limb and life loss.

Oh, and by the way:

Dariush[...], which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

And I cannot believe you repeated it again and again in your Evidence post. U tunnelin' bro?

"I gave reasons why you should answer my question. You ignored them."

"You didn't answer the question."

"You evaded my question again. Remember how I wrote earlier that I wanted to quote you on something?"

"If you're that intent on disproving my incriminating facts, check your counterstatements first. The post of mine you're referring to is already the post where I repeat my question. So you should have had no problems at all giving a coherent, precise and satisfactory answer the first time I asked.
"

The hypocrisy is too much for mine eyes.

Restating!

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

Palm to the face.

Oh, P.S. McFry, if you're scumhunting Dariush like you said here then I'd truly wish you well. Other than being a hypocrite, that is. And not even spreading out the need for information once you "are sure" of who is scum. Or perchance, to read more on your pursuant?

Also, verging on non-mafia details is not good. Perfect for you to go on your lead though. Wacky Death Race is the best proof you can give to show Dariush is scum. Especially on the effort made in that off-topic post, it reflects, you know?

This... is a jumble of incoherent sentences that somehow includes a vote on me. Somewhere in the world you have made a grammar nazi cry. But for the sake of all our sanities, I will try to interpret what you're saying here to my best efforts.

Time to lay down the post! Unvote

McFry:
Wow. I was going to believe you're evidence there in that long spoiler list.

But now you're not believing my evidence any more. What made you do so?

Attacking every crucial detail on why Dariush is super Scum with an S.

Yes, that is my intention.

Not saying I'm defending him here but your understanding is damned.

Damned good? Damned bad? Damned stupid?
And why? Give a reason.

Do you bother reading your accuser's posts other than waiving them off like fluff?

Yes, I take people saying stuff seriously, and I greatly dislike when people say stupid things.

Well, we had all the time in the last two days to check if what is going on is true or not.

Yes, and I believe that what I said is true. If you don't, feel free to say so.

It revolves around his not answering your question.

It started out with that. Now it's much more, and it's being confirmed with every word that Dariush says.

Could you re-quote it please, for everyone to verify?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Oh hi there Dariush. Don't mind if I pull apart your posts.

Oooooh. Here I was being all cute and fluffy, hoping for several similarly cute and fluffy, wide-eyed and agreeable newbies, and instead I find a bunch of self-important tight-assed goatfuckers. Well then, let's play rough.

You should have told us that you were being cute and fluffy, because I sure didn't notice.

Argh, every IC has some kind of long-winded greeting except me. Oh well. I'm Dariush, and I'm extremely white and fluffy. Any interactions with me may will result in sanity, blood, limb and life loss.

This is an honest mistake on my part. I was trying to make a witty response here, but it looks like I forgot that Dariush did actually say so. Perhaps because it's not actually important to the game, so I forgot about it.

Oh, and by the way:

Dariush[...], which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

As you could have guessed already when I asked the question, but should absolutely know by now, while this is logically correct, this is not an acceptable answer. Dariush clearly prefers being smartass to being helpful.

And I cannot believe you repeated it again and again in your Evidence post. U tunnelin' bro?

Actually, I'm not. While this certainly looks like confirmation bias, it is in fact not, as I have really only received positive confirmation. Dariush is showing again and again that he does not give a single goatfuck about being even moderately helpful. Even though the question has devolved to a formality now and is not actually helpful anymore, he is consistently refusing to comply in the knowledge that complying would have taken less effort than telling me that it's bullshit to comply. By now, I have given up on getting an answer to this question. (PPE: But I have asked him some follow-up questions, which he then proceeded to ignore).

"I gave reasons why you should answer my question. You ignored them."

"You didn't answer the question."

"You evaded my question again. Remember how I wrote earlier that I wanted to quote you on something?"

"If you're that intent on disproving my incriminating facts, check your counterstatements first. The post of mine you're referring to is already the post where I repeat my question. So you should have had no problems at all giving a coherent, precise and satisfactory answer the first time I asked.
"

The hypocrisy is too much for mine eyes.

That's not even hypocrisy.

Restating!

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

Palm to the face.

You are good at restating. But what's your point? "Palm to the face" is not an argument.

Oh, P.S. McFry, if you're scumhunting Dariush like you said here then I'd truly wish you well.

Now am I doing like I said or not?

Other than being a hypocrite, that is.

Not.

And not even spreading out the need for information once you "are sure" of who is scum.

What? Spreading out the need for information? I'm already using all the information I can get from Dariush. Do you want me to ask Dariush the question again? Why don't you ask him this time? Perhaps he'll suddenly feel compelled to answer to you instead.

Or perchance, to read more on your pursuant?

Even more than I'm already doing?
And FYI, I won't use metascumtells as arguments, so you can't even know what I'm reading about.

Also, verging on non-mafia details is not good. Perfect for you to go on your lead though. Wacky Death Race is the best proof you can give to show Dariush is scum. Especially on the effort made in that off-topic post, it reflects, you know?

I'm verging on details that differentiate him from town. Also, what is a Wacky Death Race? I looked in the Mafiascum wiki, but I could't find it.
And what the hell reflects?

As far as I can understand, you're accusing me because 1) I'm having a successful scumhunt, 2) because I'm a hypocrite (which I'm not), and 3) because I failed a witty remark.
I mean, seriously. What the hell. Those must be the worst reasons ever for a vote. Shame on you, man. Shame on you.


Dariush, it's you again. Well, what do we have here.

vomit

You fucking piece of shit. Not only you ignored the entirety of my post, you actually had the guts to say that I didn't say anything useful, vote me and ignore the questions I specifically warned I'll have your ass for not answering. Honestly, regardless of your alignment, I hope to never see you again on this forum. You just don't care.

And the odds of the same IC being scum two games in a row is microscopic. Dariush was scum in BM XXXI.

Gambler's Fallacy is just that - a fallacy. Don't resort to it.

Dariush: How goes the IC'ing? (Heh, Icing) On that note: who, now, do you think is the most scummy of the bunch?

Dr. Phibes for giving a grand total of less than one fuck during the whole game. What did you hope to gain from the answer?

What do we have here? An insult, a filler, an answer and an overused and destructive counter-question.

I'll just put this here again.

1. Repeated voluntary cooperation refusal.

As you might remember, I have given many good reasons why you should answer the question I asked you. As you didn't answer my question like I suggested you do, you obviously disagree with all of the reasons.
To recap: Here are the reasons.

First, the ICs have played more games with this round's players, and should therefore have an accurate idea of most people's gameplay, more than I and others have read out of the previous games.
Second, there are two of them, and if one should decide to give biased information, then information between the two IC posts will differ and we will know that one of the ICs cannot be trusted.
Third, everybody can use the information given by the ICs. I suspect that not everybody will go through all of this group's previous games, so the information will help the players to form their own opinion. As I said before, the information given by the ICs can't be used for scumtells, so everybody will still have to scumhunt on their own, but with a little more guidance.
Fourth, it is not required to believe or even regard the given information. You are still free to suspect whomever you want.
Fifth, this is a test to see if the ICs are willing to cooperate with the town.

As you are of the opinion that these reasons suck, you should probably have reasons for thinking like this, therefore you should be able to tell us these reasons. Why do you disagree with all of the reasons I gave you?

Note the question mark.
To quote you:

You fucking piece of shit. Not only you ignored the entirety of my post, you actually had the guts to [...] ignore the questions I specifically warned I'll have your ass for not answering.

Seriously. Double standards.


MOD: We already have three extends.

[MagmaMcFry]

vote Extend

Extend.

Extend too

[Darvi]

I can confirm the amount of extends. One by Strat, Painiac, and Tiruin each.

Aaaaand there  you go ninjaing me.

[Strategia]

PPE: This used to be a list of quotes of the three extend votes, but since Magma and Darvi have already taken care of that, I removed it. However, if the tie is broken (either way) before the original day end, I withdraw my vote. My initial extend was meant to give more time to break the tie, so if the tie is already broken, there's no reason to extend anymore, for me at least.

But hey if you dont answer me, why on earth should i answer you?

dont answer me, why on earth should i answer you?

why on earth should i answer you?

Maybe because that's how the game is played? And because refusing to answer questions is a massive scumtell? Oh, by the way, you're still my top vote once Painiac kicks the bucket. And I must say, you're not doing a very good job of convincing me not to.

[Dr.Phibes]

Strategia, Why dont you care if Dariush doesent answer questions? And why are you suspecting me? All i said was i dont think you are scum.

[Strategia]

Strategia, Why dont you care if Dariush doesent answer questions? And why are you suspecting me? All i said was i dont think you are scum.

I've seen Dariush answer his questions; and besides, he's an IC. You, on the other hand, are new. You're vague, which is a scumtell, and passive, which is a lesser scumtell. And outright saying "why should I answer your questions" is a really, really, really bad idea, especially if you make good on that.

[Dr.Phibes]

Fair enough, i can answer his question, but i think he should answer as well beacuse as you said not answering questions is a scumtell.

[Painiac]

Actually, Scelly is right. Let's examine two possible answers, shall we?
1.) "Why are you SCUMMM?" "I'm not." This is basically what any normal player would answer. Congratulations, you have learned nothing. Oh, and Dariush outright said this as well.
2.) "Why are you SCUMMM?" "That's a stupid question." Also basically what any normal player could answer, especially an IC, given that they're supposed to teach you how to scumhunt properly. Dariush, being Dariush, simply added profanity.

That's true, normal answer would look like this. But Dariush answer was more ,,flavorful". It's really funny it's YOU who mentions this. Your ,,Red or Blue" question wasn't better (probably even worse), and these were answers YOU got. Most of these answers were of 1) style, I answered in 2) style. I had asked one such question, you had asked this, like, FIVE times?

Rest is just WIFOM. I could say that scum wouldn't attack IC directly in first post, because it would be plain stupid to argue with more experienced player. And being in such bad spotlight would lynch scum in no time. But that's also WIFOM. Oh, and that's Gambler Fallacy you are making there. If you were throwing coin and got tails 3 times, it will not warp a coin, it will not change laws of gravity, it will not spawn some miracle or whatever. Next throw will also have 50/50 chance. Chances of Dariush being scum aren't that microscopic as you would think. These chances are equal to me being scum, or you, or anyone else after all.

IC'ing != OMGUSing. An OMGUS is an outright attack (i.e. a vote, or at the very least an FoS) on someone for basically no other reason than that they attacked you. Even then, an OMGUS is one of the more questionable scumtells. Dariush' job, being an IC, is to point out what you're doing wrong when scumhunting, which is what he's doing right here. This is in no way, shape or form an OMGUS; again, it's you attacking an IC for..... basically no reason at all.

Something like very passive OMGUS...

very passive OMGUS

VERY PASSIVE

I know definition of OMGUS, thank you. I didn't say it was normal OMGUS. I did say it has looked like very passive OMGUS.

I will be a completely impartial source of advice that I will freely give at every opportunity, whether I am asked for it or I decide to give it on my own. You can trust that everything I have to say will be given in good faith, even if it comes at a personal cost to me in this game.

This goes for every IC, Dariush included. For an IC, their wincon comes secondary to their teaching role.

If he wasn't insisting that I am roleplaying (I was offtoping), I would agree with your quote.

In addition to not being a lazy passive dick, don't be a lazy aggressive dick either. (Trust me, I know this first-hand. I got myself lynched that way in BM XXX.) I also like how you're now arguing in Dariush' favour, and especially the bit about "that's not the purpose of ICs". This exchange seems strange and weak to me, almost like you're desperately trying to appear to argue with Magma, but really aren't.

whaaaaat
This argument seems strange and weak to me, almost like you're desperately trying to appear to argue with me, but really aren't.
Seriously, I am dumbfounded here. I know my main problem is too much aggresion. But, come on, he was spewning out such lazy bullshit I couldn't ignore him. It was necessary to show him that being THAT lazy is very, very bad and arrogant. Magma being town or scum wasn't important in that moment, to be frank.

Oh..... wow. Phibes' reason for suspecting Dariush is nulltell WIFOM, based on your own question? Wait, what was that sound I heard? Oh, right, that's your credibility flying out the window and making a rather ugly splat on the pavement.

Twist meaning of my question MOAR. I was never making argument ,,Dariush, you said you are town, therefore you may be scum!". Never. I was insisting from the very start that actual answer meant little to nothing for me, it was form of answer what I actually cared for. But, Dr.Phibes WAS doing such stupid WIFOM shit, on the other hand.

"You are stepping on the thin ice of meta scumtells" indeed. Oh dear, looks like your credibility is going down the storm drain after its big splat. Also, more meaningless exchange with McFry. Have I perchance stumbled upon your scumbuddy?

Magma wanted to start with meta scumtells as his scumhunt basis, which was just plain wrong. I just throwed one, little question, while I was aware it will backfire at me if I will treat it too seriously.

he can be flippy-flappy

CAN (doesn't have to be!)

You said something about credibility? Your accusations are big steaming crap so far.

Exactly what I'd recommend you do yourself. You've been doing three things so far; going after Dariush for essentially no reason, having a wishy-washy back-and-forth with Magma, and asking lazy, meaningless questions of random people without following up on them. Oh, and a fourth thing; undercutting your own credibility.

Your shitty arguments tires me. Do you expect I would have nice and clean reason for scumhunting Dariush? No, it was RvS stage. It's obvious I would have little to no reason to scumhunt at anyone. What, I was supposed to lurk, and do nothing at all, while asking stupid ,,red or blue" question? Oh, and there you are, accusing me of asking lazy, meaningless questions. It's you, who undercuts your own credibility.

Dr.Phibes, you're kinda passive. Only answering questions, and asked questions to targets I had choose before. You can't do some research on your own? What are you thinking about other players, any impressions?

drakon136, I can understand you have school/RL, but could you try asking some questions later, instead of only aswering them?

Tiruin, what role would you enjoy more - scum, or townie?

And here's the lazy questions I mentioned two quotes ago. RVS questions at this stage? Really?

From these three questions, only question to Tiruin could be classified as RvS question. Question to drakon126 was basically prodding him to do something more, instead of being lurky. And question to Dr. Phibes had similar goal, he was unproductive and unreadable. Making some shitty accusations? Really?

Oooooh. Here I was being all cute and fluffy, hoping for several similarly cute and fluffy, wide-eyed and agreeable newbies, and instead I find a bunch of self-important tight-assed goatfuckers. Well then, let's play rough.

Well, I can understand why scum would want naive town for enemy.

Do they speak sarcasm in What? Also, if you're such an expert on Dariush' meta ("flippy-flappy on such questions when scum"), how come you're so incredibly surprised by Dariush hurling insults around like it's a competition?

whaaaaat
Where I am being suprised by Dariush actions? If you want to frame me with wild accusations, try better. Random quotes will not work.

There's no such thing as a "nice, clean OMGUS". An OMGUS is a vague tell at best.

I have to repeat myself? By saying ,,nice, clean OMGUS", I meant it's book definition. While ,,very passive OMGUS" is slightly different. And no, it is scumtell, because it's not vague tell.

OMGUSing implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want people to stop, which is more a scum thing.

That's some accomplishment, even twisting scumtell to match your crappy argument.

Apart from the fact that I have no idea what you're saying in your first sentence, you outright stated Dariush was OMGUSing you a couple of quotes back. Vagueness, pointless aggression, and either backtracking or outright lying. Check, check, check, no argument left.

You know, you had accused me several times... While not stating what are you accusing me for. Like, ,,I accuse you, because something!". And you are accusing me of being vague and outright lying, while being vague and outright lying! That's probably the crappiest argument I saw in this mafia.

Dariush reply to my post and yours stinks of scum. Needs more looking.

I stink of scum after a whopping one post, most of which was IC stuff. Nice nose you have there. Maybe it's your brain that stinks from inside instead?

,,Needs more looking" implies that I wasn't sure what I should think about you; townies may drop one or another scummy post while going for their target, it's just natural.

Well, let's make some crappy bullshit arguments, derp

Your wild accusations are dripping scumminess. And nice argument you have here: ,,I think your posts are scummy, I don't have proof though, but you are scum!". Yeah.

Now, I'm not defending Dariush here, but I see you went all jumpy

If you had read my previous mafias, as you had suggested, you should know better I am FAR from being jumpy. And that phrasing is very funny, ,,I kinda not chainsawing you now, but i am chainsawing you". If you fear about your image so much, just lurk, scum.

> in beginner's mafia
> implies to have meta
> is actually jumpy

> implying

And you do admit, making nonsensical arguments was your plan to catch scum all along?

If that works, then why not. It's not like I could think up any serious, logical argument from ONE post.

Wow. Just..... wow.

What, are you suprised that playing dirty may be effective? It is mafia, if your opponent is 100% scum, fabricating evidence and thinking up shit to lynch him is acceptable. But probably only in LYLO, though. You will look scummy when pulling such stunts in normal situation. And making shit arguments to see what reaction will be (townie will be VERY angry) can also work. But looks scummy.

Painiac, I would like nothing better than to see scum like you hang. And even if you flip town, well, you're obstructive to actual scumhunting and hurting the town because of it so I still won't be sad to see you go. Bye bye now.

Bye bye my ass, scum. Don't be so relaxed, you hadn't lynched me yet. Strategia. I would like to see scummy, framing, making wild accusations ass like you hang. And what the hell you are saying? Even if I would be townie, it would be good lynching me? That's such stupid and anti-town proposition (backed up with crappy argument, of course) only scum would say. That's worse from any policy lynch.