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[MagmaMcFry]

Slight quote mess-up there. The vote you're casting won't show up on LurkerTracker if it's in a quote.

[IronyOwl]

Extend. Very sorry about vanishing, but this does at least provide several important lessons.

IronyOwl, what do you have to say about all this so far?

I think I'm too burned out to give a better response, but:

Magma and Strategia seem to know what they're doing.

Painiac, Strategia, and Tiruin are veering into Wall of Text territory. This is a dangerous land, filled with arguments too lengthy for anyone to bother reading. They need to be prepared to summarize their arguments succinctly when they want to actually convince people.

Dr.Phibes seems to be struggling, but I think he's got a fair point on Dariush.



Magma:

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I've played with Dariush, Tiruin, and maybe Strategia, not sure. Dariush tends to be full of bile and bad at explaining himself. Tiruin I seem to recall being enthusiastic but awkward in some fashion, but I don't really remember the details. Strategia I don't remember anything about, if indeed I've played with him before. In all cases, I'm not aware of any differences between their scum and town play.

I tend to be fairly wordy, and sometimes get sucked into useless walls of text. I try to follow my gut where possible, but more often end up dissecting posts to point out how scummy someone is (hence the tendency to dissect too thoroughly).


Tiruin:

IronyOwl: This is the first time (in recent games) that I've seen you as a BM IC. How are you prepared to correct each player's scumhunting/perspective and to aid them generally? Straight to the point posts, or in detail ideas?

Generally in detail ideas. I've never been a fan of convincing people to do things by rote mimicry and then explaining why they're doing it later. Thus, while I intend to be mindful of the fact that most newbies can't handle a three page document on the underlying principles of scumhunting, I'd much rather explain the principles than just tell them what to do.


Strategia:

IronyOwl, red or blue?

Red.

Tiruin, drakon, where are you?

Why'd you care about them but not me?


Painiac:

IronyOwl: Would you want vanilla role, or something more important in such light setting?

Generally speaking I'd like an important role, because hey, free role! And I have more confidence in my own target selection than most other peoples'.

In this particular case, ICs tend to be higher up the kill-list, so I might prefer someone who's more likely to be around for longer to have it instead, though.


Scelly9:

Ironyowl. Let's assume for a second that you're scum. Do you think the fact that you're an IC would give you an advantage in remaining undetected?

Yes and no, probably leaning more yes. People tend to have trouble suspecting ICs (not so much this game, but for obvious reasons), but since you'd have someone on the inside, as it were, I think your odds of finding me out would be better than normal.



Dariush:

Dr.Scummes:

Dariush, if we say you were a scum, who would be your first target and why?

Instead of me answering your question, let's examine two possibilities: 1) I answer, the guy I named dies. Next day you accuse me. 2) I answer, someone else dies. You say that I did that intentionally so you won't accuse me and accuse me because of it. This is utter bullshit WIFOM.

Dr.Phibes, what were you hoping to gain from my answer to the above question? And don't you dare answer something along the lines of 'your reaction'. Just don't you dare.

This was a perfectly valid attempt to get inside your head (or at least a rote imitation of such), and you blew it off in an overdefensive huff. I wanna know who you'd kill tonight as scum, because I wanna know who you're currently viewing as a threat and what your current take on a scum strategy would be. While you're at it, I'd like to know who you'd defend as a doc and inspect as a cop.

Finally, what I really wanna know is why you jumped straight to OH NO YOU DON'T IF I ANSWER THIS I'LL BE WALKING INTO YOUR TRAP in response. Are you that threatened by Dr.Phibes' dastardly ploy?

[Think0028]

Day extended to Monday!

[Strategia]

Painiac, Strategia, and Tiruin are veering into Wall of Text territory. This is a dangerous land, filled with arguments too lengthy for anyone to bother reading. They need to be prepared to summarize their arguments succinctly when they want to actually convince people.

I was bored at work, and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't spouting utter bullshit, so I decided to go over all of Painiac's posts so far for completeness' sake.

Strategia I don't remember anything about, if indeed I've played with him before.

I haven't played with you before, I've only been in BM XXX (and the replacement list for BM XXXI), and lurking in a handful of other games (such as BSER and Hammertime). Haven't posted in those though.

Tiruin, drakon, where are you?

Why'd you care about them but not me?

My previous experience with ICs indicated that they tend, on the whole, to be very much less active than the new players themselves, so I didn't mind your inactivity at the time. (I may have checked your profile and saw your last post had been here, or I may be confused with someone else. My memory on such matters gets fuzzy sometimes.) My later question to you on "what do you think of the situation" was also my way of asking where you were.


(I'll summarise my arguments at the end of the post, so if you tl;dr you can skip this section and go straight there.)

It's really funny it's YOU who mentions this. Your ,,Red or Blue" question wasn't better (probably even worse), and these were answers YOU got.

All right, since it probably won't really work after this game anyway: The reason I asked those "red vs. blue" questions was to get a very broad, basic read on players' personalities through a very simple either-or question. Red = more emotional an impulsive, possibly aggressive, blue = more calm and careful, both in very broad strokes. Like I said, this had no immediate effect on my votes, but it did give me a rough idea of what to expect from the players I asked. And guess what? You said red, and you've been very impulsive and aggressive throughout this game so far. Phibes, for instance, said blue and is much more passive (though to the point of either absurdity or just not caring). Again, this has no immediate bearing on my votes, but it's a quick and easy way to get a broad read on someone.

Rest is just WIFOM. I could say that scum wouldn't attack IC directly in first post, because it would be plain stupid to argue with more experienced player. And being in such bad spotlight would lynch scum in no time. But that's also WIFOM. Oh, and that's Gambler Fallacy you are making there. If you were throwing coin and got tails 3 times, it will not warp a coin, it will not change laws of gravity, it will not spawn some miracle or whatever. Next throw will also have 50/50 chance. Chances of Dariush being scum aren't that microscopic as you would think. These chances are equal to me being scum, or you, or anyone else after all.

Eh, true. I'm not discounting the possibility that Dariush is scum, I'm just saying that I find it unlikely. As for attacking an IC right off the bat, yes it may be WIFOM but the way I see it is you trying to deny the town access to one of our ICs through a lynch. You say that you read some other games Dariush was in and have a slight read on his meta. I.e. you know he's, shall we say, rather abrasive. It's easy to paint that as scumminess to a bunch of newbies. And quite honestly, I wouldn't put it past Darvi to put you up to this, just to get under Dariush' skin (nothing personal Darvi).

I know definition of OMGUS, thank you. I didn't say it was normal OMGUS. I did say it has looked like very passive OMGUS.

There's no such thing. Your argument is void.

Assuming it isn't, and "looking like a very passive OMGUS" is a valid scumtell instead of an utterly vague nonsensical phrase, you look slightly like an experienced player, and this orange juice on my desk looks like it has a very slight green tinge under my desk lamp. But see, the thing is, you aren't some kind of Mafia legend, and my orange juice is just plain yellow, because looking very slightly like a passive something-or-other is a phrase with absolutely no validation whatsoever. Skyscrapers look very slightly like marshmallows. Someone sitting in their car with the engine off looks like a very passive driver. It has utterly no meaning.

"You are stepping on the thin ice of meta scumtells" indeed. Oh dear, looks like your credibility is going down the storm drain after its big splat. Also, more meaningless exchange with McFry. Have I perchance stumbled upon your scumbuddy?

Magma wanted to start with meta scumtells as his scumhunt basis, which was just plain wrong. I just throwed one, little question, while I was aware it will backfire at me if I will treat it too seriously.

Well hey, guess what? Your one little question is backfiring on you. Either it led you down a route of tunnel-vision, going after Dariush at the expense of scumhunting anybody else for the entire day (in which case you're an obstruction to scumhunting and I want you gone), or you knew full well what was going to happen and used it to goad Dariush with the intention of getting rid of him ASAP (in which case you're scum and I want you gone).

whaaaaat
Where I am being suprised by Dariush actions? If you want to frame me with wild accusations, try better. Random quotes will not work.

Maybe "surprised" wasn't the best choice of words. What I meant was how you were going after Dariush for, again, being Dariush. Hurling insults and being abrasive are not scumtells.

I have to repeat myself? By saying ,,nice, clean OMGUS", I meant it's book definition. While ,,very passive OMGUS" is slightly different.

If you really want a definition of "nice, clean OMGUS", I'd recommend looking at the tail end of your own post. And again, "very passive OMGUS" is not "slightly different", it doesn't exist.

You know, you had accused me several times... While not stating what are you accusing me for. Like, ,,I accuse you, because something!". And you are accusing me of being vague and outright lying, while being vague and outright lying! That's probably the crappiest argument I saw in this mafia.

I'm accusing you because you appear scummier with every post you make. Because your arguments are based on nothing. Because you're hurling vague non-entities around like they're some sort of all-telling scumslip. Because you're scum.

Your wild accusations are dripping scumminess. And nice argument you have here: ,,I think your posts are scummy, I don't have proof though, but you are scum!". Yeah.

Excuse me while I try to wrap my head around this stupidity. If you want proof, you've been dissecting it this whole post so far. As for wild accusations dripping scumminess; pot, meet kettle. Besides, forgive me for actually attempting proper scumhunting on D1 instead of relentlessly attacking one person right from the very first post with barely any regard for anyone else along the way. Oh that's right, I forgot, you don't actually need to scumhunt. It'd be rather hard to hunt yourself.

Bye bye my ass, scum. Don't be so relaxed, you hadn't lynched me yet. Strategia. I would like to see scummy, framing, making wild accusations ass like you hang. And what the hell you are saying? Even if I would be townie, it would be good lynching me? That's such stupid and anti-town proposition (backed up with crappy argument, of course) only scum would say. That's worse from any policy lynch.

So far, if there's anything I've noticed about myself when playing Mafia, it's that whenever I start to attack someone I tend to end my posts with a relaxed-seeming, sarcastic stinger along the lines of the "bye bye now" in here. And just because you haven't been lynched yet doesn't mean you won't be lynched in the future. And yes, lynching townies can be something other than entirely a bad thing. Look at Phibes; IIRC, you yourself said he was being vague and unreadable, and therefore dangerous. If Phibes got lynched, and flipped town, that means that he wasn't scum but just an idiot who distracted the town. Getting rid of scummy town helps clean the place up, and makes the actual scum easier to find. Therefore, even though I do believe you are scum, I want you gone no matter what.


Summary of my arguments against Painiac.

- He has been attacking only one target, and an IC at that, with any kind of force for the entire day, right from the get go (until now).
- His attacks on Dariush are based on bullshit.
- His tunnel-vision is hurting town scumhunting efforts.
- If he isn't scum, he's very scummy town, and needs to go as well.

Ergo; my vote stays firmly on Painiac.

[Strategia]

Oh, by the way - Mod: what's the current votecount?

[Tiruin]

McFry

This... is a jumble of incoherent sentences that somehow includes a vote on me. Somewhere in the world you have made a grammar nazi cry. But for the sake of all our sanities, I will try to interpret what you're saying here to my best efforts.

Incoherent? Compared to the rest of all your answers to everyone else and you call mine incoherent? Get to the point and answer them.

Time to lay down the post! Unvote

McFry:
Wow. I was going to believe you're evidence there in that long spoiler list.

But now you're not believing my evidence any more. What made you do so?

Judging by what I did post, you've missed the point.

Let me post up the core of my post to you and how you understood Dariush, including how you worded it.

Spoiler: Good thing there is a spoiler function to shorten (click to show/hide)

It revolves around his not answering your question.

It started out with that. Now it's much more, and it's being confirmed with every word that Dariush says.

Could you re-quote it please, for everyone to verify?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Oh hi there Dariush. Don't mind if I pull apart your posts.

Oooooh. Here I was being all cute and fluffy, hoping for several similarly cute and fluffy, wide-eyed and agreeable newbies, and instead I find a bunch of self-important tight-assed goatfuckers. Well then, let's play rough.

You should have told us that you were being cute and fluffy, because I sure didn't notice.

Argh, every IC has some kind of long-winded greeting except me. Oh well. I'm Dariush, and I'm extremely white and fluffy. Any interactions with me may will result in sanity, blood, limb and life loss.

This is an honest mistake on my part. I was trying to make a witty response here, but it looks like I forgot that Dariush did actually say so. Perhaps because it's not actually important to the game, so I forgot about it.

Oh, and by the way:

Dariush[...], which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

As you could have guessed already when I asked the question, but should absolutely know by now, while this is logically correct, this is not an acceptable answer. Dariush clearly prefers being smartass to being helpful.

Now, you last stated that "It is not an acceptable answer. Dariush clearly prefers being smartass to being helpful." Now think of this. He is an IC, ICs teach by their own post. Maybe 'How to deal with a smartass.' would clearly define his actions or 'How to keep your calm with a smartass goading you.'

So I get, you are attacking him not anymore because of his incompetent answer, but because he's acting like the worst IC ever? Let me tell you this, straight. Everyone has their own special way to teach and it is up to those under them to listen or not. Clearly, you are jumping on the 'hit smartass' wagon.

Other than that, how would that certain smartass know what you actually meant when all you stated afterwards is this:

Spoiler: Purpose (click to show/hide)

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

The purpose of my questions was to have the ICs spit out some detailed information on people's known individual playstyles, so everyone has some kind of idea about how others behave and can direct their scumhunting based on who is behaving differently than they are described. Naturally, the "not behaving as they are described" can't be used as a scumtell, because for all we know you could just be lying about the playstyles, but if A notices an inconsistency between B's described and exhibited behavior, he can just start focusing his scumhunt on B. So essentially, the information you and IronyOwl give acts as a minor hunting aid for everyone.

Or at least it would, if you had actually given some information, instead of immediately starting to act the unhelpful jerk that you've been during the entire previous BM.

What the-...Look at what your purpose exactly was, the ICs would be the ones to spout out how players play to know their playstyle?! How in the world would you derive scumhunting from that question? Playstyles change with every coming Mafia game, we live and we learn from our mistakes and ratify it on how we see fit. Mine can be as flexible as a hollow concrete block, if you want to know it!

Judging by that, you already received your answer! Did you say "It is not an acceptable answer." No. How would anyone imply such from that amalgam of words there?

Afterwards, you restate the same question without telling him what you need to know, not being straight to the point but too stubborn to even say that he answered it wrongly! No, you say "You haven't answered it yet." instead. How quaint is the mannerism of the one who complains on my grammar.

Spoiler: Compilation of useful links (click to show/hide)

Complete and utter restatement
Depending on the ICs for info, here comes the "You haven't answered it yet" deal.
Stating Dariush "Denied" answering your question.
Nearing McFry's point, but not directly saying "I'm unhappy with Dariush's answer."

Wow. This stretches on to...right now.

One thing I may ask. Where are your useful contributions to the scumhunt. It's been after an IC with a faulty foundation. Guess why most of the people here are saying re-quoting your words as something along the lines of "Please scumhunt for me, I am too lazy."

Spoiler: McFry. (click to show/hide)

Magma McScum:

Dariush, you have been constantly active on the forums for almost eight hours after I repeated my question, but you haven't answered it yet, which makes me even more suspicious. Now that I have given my reasons for asking this question, I will ask you one last time, and I expect you to swallow your pride (it doesn't belong in a Mafia game) and answer this question to everyone's fullest satisfaction. Which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum?

I already answered it and explained what I think about it in my previous post. You can go fuck yourself now.

Okay Dariush, let's look at what you did wrong so far.

1. Repeated voluntary cooperation refusal.

As you might remember, I have given many good reasons why you should answer the question I asked you. As you didn't answer my question like I suggested you do, you obviously disagree with all of the reasons.
To recap: Here are the reasons.

First, the ICs have played more games with this round's players, and should therefore have an accurate idea of most people's gameplay, more than I and others have read out of the previous games.
Second, there are two of them, and if one should decide to give biased information, then information between the two IC posts will differ and we will know that one of the ICs cannot be trusted.
Third, everybody can use the information given by the ICs. I suspect that not everybody will go through all of this group's previous games, so the information will help the players to form their own opinion. As I said before, the information given by the ICs can't be used for scumtells, so everybody will still have to scumhunt on their own, but with a little more guidance.
Fourth, it is not required to believe or even regard the given information. You are still free to suspect whomever you want.
Fifth, this is a test to see if the ICs are willing to cooperate with the town.

As you are of the opinion that these reasons suck, you should probably have reasons for thinking like this, therefore you should be able to tell us these reasons. Why do you disagree with all of the reasons I gave you?

2. Double standards.

Obviously you think you have some rights that others don't have, for example the right to expect an answer to a question asked by you, the right to withhold an answer to a question asked to you, or the right to bash a newbie repeatedly for doing something wrong (instead of just telling him). You'd explain that with an "I'm IC, I'm supposed to do that", but the only requirement for you to be an IC is to be helpful. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries in ways that allow you to stop people from hunting on you, but you don't need that, or do you?

3. Abusive behaviour.

You're well educated in the art of insulting people, as you have proven more than enough in your last two posts. The act of insulting people is not that bad by itself, but you obviously like to prefer insults over arguments. Hint: "Fucksack" is not a reason, and "You can go fuck yourself now" is not an answer. What makes it even worse is that you like to necro old and completed discussions for the sole purpose of insulting the person whose actions started the discussion. Looking at your last two posts, about 60% of their content are purely made of insults and repetitions of stuff that people already said earlier. The rest is made up of unfounded accusations that require the accused people's actions to be grossly misinterpreted for the accusation to even make sense.

Your first sentence under the first reason states: "As you might remember, I have given many good reasons why you should answer the question I asked you." Coming from my eye, this is probably the worst way possible to give him reason to answer you, Sir.

"It is not an acceptable answer." and why it isn't could have been the best way to clear up this mess. If you had given that, I would've believed you against Dariush but you went on as vague as ever. I mean, after a good, thorough re-read, this backs up my vote on you! This just proves your own hypocrisy!

P.S. On 'Hypocrisy', I'm referring to your own belief on Dariush and his playstyle while you act in contradiction to your own. Your meaning was not clear yet you say that you've cleared it, thoroughly while beating down on Dariush. His purpose is to teach, winning is second-line to him.

On your idea on Wacky Death Race, that is the post that you've linked to. Out of Mafia. Duh.

Dammit McFry!

To reiterate what I meant by 'spreading information', you are only targeting Dariush out of his comments on your question. You've failed to target anyone else. So let's say Dariush turns out scum if he is lynched today, eh? Who will you target then?

Scelly9 and drakon136: Hello lurkers, I would like to know why both of you haven't said anything appropriately useful about the current situation. drakon136, you haven't given any tangible leads on you, preferring to give answers to everyone else.
Painiac: One question. Why the mixed-up voting?
Strategia: I answered 'Or' to your color question.
Mod: So...official votecount coming in two hours?
LurkerTracker: Thank you.

Scelly9 -
drakon136 -
Dr.Phibes - Dariush
Tiruin -
MagmaMcFry - Tiruin
Strategia - Paniac, IronyOwl
Painiac - Scelly9, Strategia
IronyOwl -
Dariush - MagmaMcFry,

[Dr.Phibes]

Tiruin, I have voted on Dariush.

Strategia, Am i really that passive? Just beacuse i dont post 2 pages of text doesent mean i dont write, i mean look at Drakon136 and scelly9.
It seems like no one even bother to read my posts lol, execpt Ironyowl. I have been writing questions and answering, but it gets a bit booring when i need to reapet myself over and over. Btw why did you vote on me in the first place? Beacuse i thought you were a townie?

[Tiruin]

Scelly9 -
drakon136 -
Dr.Phibes - Dariush
Tiruin -
MagmaMcFry - Tiruin
Strategia - Paniac, IronyOwl
Painiac - Scelly9, Strategia
IronyOwl -
Dariush - MagmaMcFry, Dr.Phibes

Um, Dr.Phibes, restate your question to Strategia. It's reasoning is truly off. You are referring to yourself there.

[Think0028]

Sorry everyone, some minor personal problems prevented me from doing a votecount. All fixed now!
Votecount!

Dariush [2]: Dr.Phibes, MagmaMcFry
Painiac [2]: Scelly9, Strategia
MagmaMcFry [1]: Tiruin
Strategia [2]: IronyOwl, Painiac
Dr.Phibes [1]: Dariush

Not Voting: drakon136

Day ends Monday!
New topic posted in the Labrador Canine Squad forums: Are mail trucks supposed to be convertable?

I was testing out my pacifist barking run, and I noticed that at one point when I was sieged I accidentally converted a mailtruck. It's now ramming into things for the Labrador cause. Is this a bug?

The game also is extremely upset when I try to equip a collar on the mail truck.

[Scelly9]

Ok, first off I am extremely sorry about disappearing. I sort of forgot about my FIRST robotics competition and found myself being dragged across half the state with no internet access. I'm gonna go back and start reading. Unfortunately I have a lot to catch up on.

[Scelly9]

Ok, here's what I think of most of you.

Drakon: From your two posts, I have no idea.

Dariush: You're a tough read. On one hand, you are acting pretty scummy what with the ignoring and the extreme over-reacting. But on the other hand, you scream and yell at people normally.

Dr. Phibes: He appears to be trying to scum hunt but he doesn't seem to be doing a very good job. Dariush is tough to respond to, you need to keep cool but also aggressive enough that you get your questions answered. The "why should I answer you" comment, along with the resulting discussion, seemed to be more of a noobtell than a scum tell.

Irony: Same as Drakon, however from your few posts you seem to be quite helpful.

I'm gonna finish the rest tomorrow. I'm exhausted.

[Tiruin]

Um,  Mod Think. Painiac switched his vote to Strategia in his messed up post.

[Think0028]

Fixed.

[MagmaMcFry]

Spoiler: Good thing there is a spoiler function to shorten (click to show/hide)

It revolves around his not answering your question.

It started out with that. Now it's much more, and it's being confirmed with every word that Dariush says.

Could you re-quote it please, for everyone to verify?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Oh hi there Dariush. Don't mind if I pull apart your posts.

Oooooh. Here I was being all cute and fluffy, hoping for several similarly cute and fluffy, wide-eyed and agreeable newbies, and instead I find a bunch of self-important tight-assed goatfuckers. Well then, let's play rough.

You should have told us that you were being cute and fluffy, because I sure didn't notice.

Argh, every IC has some kind of long-winded greeting except me. Oh well. I'm Dariush, and I'm extremely white and fluffy. Any interactions with me may will result in sanity, blood, limb and life loss.

This is an honest mistake on my part. I was trying to make a witty response here, but it looks like I forgot that Dariush did actually say so. Perhaps because it's not actually important to the game, so I forgot about it.

Oh, and by the way:

Dariush[...], which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

As you could have guessed already when I asked the question, but should absolutely know by now, while this is logically correct, this is not an acceptable answer. Dariush clearly prefers being smartass to being helpful.

Now, you last stated that "It is not an acceptable answer. Dariush clearly prefers being smartass to being helpful." Now think of this. He is an IC, ICs teach by their own post. Maybe 'How to deal with a smartass.' would clearly define his actions or 'How to keep your calm with a smartass goading you.'

So you say that Dariush is being a smartass because he wants to teach me something. And I say (and you should agree) that the proper way to deal with a smartass is to attack him. And now you're attacking me for doing exactly what you say Dariush wants me to do. Do you see the problem here?

So I get, you are attacking him not anymore because of his incompetent answer, but because he's acting like the worst IC ever? Let me tell you this, straight. Everyone has their own special way to teach and it is up to those under them to listen or not. Clearly, you are jumping on the 'hit smartass' wagon.

I am attacking him because he's playing anti-town, including his repeated incompetent answer. Contrary to your opinion, it doesn't actually matter if he's acting or not.
Case 1: He's acting. Then I'll attack him because he wants me to learn that you attack unhelpful smartasses.
Case 2: He's not acting. Then I'll attack him because he's an unhelpful smartass.
The reasons differ, but the result is the same. Exactly the same.

Other than that, how would that certain smartass know what you actually meant when all you stated afterwards is this:

Spoiler: Purpose (click to show/hide)

Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?

I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron. Now, what was the purpose of your questions?

The purpose of my questions was to have the ICs spit out some detailed information on people's known individual playstyles, so everyone has some kind of idea about how others behave and can direct their scumhunting based on who is behaving differently than they are described. Naturally, the "not behaving as they are described" can't be used as a scumtell, because for all we know you could just be lying about the playstyles, but if A notices an inconsistency between B's described and exhibited behavior, he can just start focusing his scumhunt on B. So essentially, the information you and IronyOwl give acts as a minor hunting aid for everyone.

Or at least it would, if you had actually given some information, instead of immediately starting to act the unhelpful jerk that you've been during the entire previous BM.

I wonder why you didn't notice that I expected him to give information, because it is the only reasonable explanation for restating my question. Or do you think I'm repeating the question just for fun?

But now you're contradicting yourself. First, you tell me that Dariush is only acting his part, which requires a decent level of intelligence. Now you tell me that you think Dariush didn't cooperate because he is too stupid to note that cooperation is expected from him. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that you expect Dariush to be acting that part as well.

What the-...Look at what your purpose exactly was, the ICs would be the ones to spout out how players play to know their playstyle?! How in the world would you derive scumhunting from that question? Playstyles change with every coming Mafia game, we live and we learn from our mistakes and ratify it on how we see fit. Mine can be as flexible as a hollow concrete block, if you want to know it!

As of this point, I've come to accept that the actual contents of an acceptable answer to my question are not actually helpful at all. Please take notice that this is my second day alive in all decent mafia games I've played in counted together, assuming that BM XXXI was decent, which I doubt.
Still, I asked my question not only because I believed that the answers would be helpful, but also to see how far the ICs were willing to cooperate, in this case to put an acceptable amount of effort into answering a question that is more extensive than the average RVS question. If you say that Dariush is excused from answering the question because it's useless, there is no shame at all in answering the question properly and then adding "Meta scumtells aren't as useful as you might believe".

Judging by that, you already received your answer! Did you say "It is not an acceptable answer." No. How would anyone imply such from that amalgam of words there?

How would you imply anything else from my "amalgam of words there" and walk away satisfied with your ability to imply? What possible other reason could I have to say that?

Afterwards, you restate the same question without telling him what you need to know, not being straight to the point but too stubborn to even say that he answered it wrongly! No, you say "You haven't answered it yet." instead. How quaint is the mannerism of the one who complains on my grammar.

Spoiler: Compilation of useful links (click to show/hide)

Complete and utter restatement
Depending on the ICs for info, here comes the "You haven't answered it yet" deal.
Stating Dariush "Denied" answering your question.
Nearing McFry's point, but not directly saying "I'm unhappy with Dariush's answer."

Wow. This stretches on to...right now.

I'm terribly sorry about only implying the word "acceptably". Also, the "denied answering" is a simple verbal mislearn. I am not a native english speaker, even if it might seem so. Please accept the term "refused to answer" instead.
In the future, I'll be extra careful not to do anything that you might interpret literally and then wonder why it doesn't make sense like that. In return, you will stop flipping out over everything that doesn't make sense if you don't read it in the knowledge that it has to make sense, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. Deal? Deal.

One thing I may ask. Where are your useful contributions to the scumhunt.

My evidence against Dariush is right here.

It's been after an IC with a faulty foundation.

Faulty foundation? I'd use the term "faulty behavior". Is it wrong to go after a player who behaves wrongly? And the fact that he's an IC only matters because then his behaviour can't be dismissed as "newbie".

Guess why most of the people here are saying re-quoting your words as something along the lines of "Please scumhunt for me, I am too lazy."

Hmmm. Perhaps because they were of the opinion that an acceptable answer to my question is useless.

Spoiler: McFry. (click to show/hide)

Magma McScum:

Dariush, you have been constantly active on the forums for almost eight hours after I repeated my question, but you haven't answered it yet, which makes me even more suspicious. Now that I have given my reasons for asking this question, I will ask you one last time, and I expect you to swallow your pride (it doesn't belong in a Mafia game) and answer this question to everyone's fullest satisfaction. Which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum?

I already answered it and explained what I think about it in my previous post. You can go fuck yourself now.

Okay Dariush, let's look at what you did wrong so far.

1. Repeated voluntary cooperation refusal.

As you might remember, I have given many good reasons why you should answer the question I asked you. As you didn't answer my question like I suggested you do, you obviously disagree with all of the reasons.
To recap: Here are the reasons.

First, the ICs have played more games with this round's players, and should therefore have an accurate idea of most people's gameplay, more than I and others have read out of the previous games.
Second, there are two of them, and if one should decide to give biased information, then information between the two IC posts will differ and we will know that one of the ICs cannot be trusted.
Third, everybody can use the information given by the ICs. I suspect that not everybody will go through all of this group's previous games, so the information will help the players to form their own opinion. As I said before, the information given by the ICs can't be used for scumtells, so everybody will still have to scumhunt on their own, but with a little more guidance.
Fourth, it is not required to believe or even regard the given information. You are still free to suspect whomever you want.
Fifth, this is a test to see if the ICs are willing to cooperate with the town.

As you are of the opinion that these reasons suck, you should probably have reasons for thinking like this, therefore you should be able to tell us these reasons. Why do you disagree with all of the reasons I gave you?

2. Double standards.

Obviously you think you have some rights that others don't have, for example the right to expect an answer to a question asked by you, the right to withhold an answer to a question asked to you, or the right to bash a newbie repeatedly for doing something wrong (instead of just telling him). You'd explain that with an "I'm IC, I'm supposed to do that", but the only requirement for you to be an IC is to be helpful. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries in ways that allow you to stop people from hunting on you, but you don't need that, or do you?

3. Abusive behaviour.

You're well educated in the art of insulting people, as you have proven more than enough in your last two posts. The act of insulting people is not that bad by itself, but you obviously like to prefer insults over arguments. Hint: "Fucksack" is not a reason, and "You can go fuck yourself now" is not an answer. What makes it even worse is that you like to necro old and completed discussions for the sole purpose of insulting the person whose actions started the discussion. Looking at your last two posts, about 60% of their content are purely made of insults and repetitions of stuff that people already said earlier. The rest is made up of unfounded accusations that require the accused people's actions to be grossly misinterpreted for the accusation to even make sense.

Your first sentence under the first reason states: "As you might remember, I have given many good reasons why you should answer the question I asked you." Coming from my eye, this is probably the worst way possible to give him reason to answer you, Sir.

I shouldn't even need to give him reasons to answer a question acceptably. The question by itself should suffice. I gave Dariush reasons to answer the question because I still wanted an acceptable answer, because I was still of the opinion that the answer would be useful.

"It is not an acceptable answer." and why it isn't could have been the best way to clear up this mess.

Oh, right, I forgot that you couldn't think farther than the text.
To recap:
My question was "Dariush and IronyOwl, which of this game's players have you played with/against before this game, and how do they play as town and scum? How do you play?".
Dariush said "I played with everyone except Painiac and Dr.Phibes. Everyone is a decent player. Except you. You are a self-obsessed moron.".
Let's see. The first part of the first question was answered satisfactorily. The second part of the first question is not "How good are they?", because that obviously doesn't help anyone. No, the second part of the question is "What is their playstyle?". Dariush gave an indication to my playstyle, but left out everyone else. And an answer to the second question was left out entirely, which, given your nitpicky attitude, should qualify for you as an unanswered question.

If you had given that, I would've believed you against Dariush

So you are essentially saying that my arguments against Dariush don't qualify because you think I'm scum. This 'because' is entirely unjustified and does not apply here. My points remain valid, it doesn't matter if I'm town or not. It looks like you're desperately looking for a reason not to vote Dariush.

P.S. On 'Hypocrisy', I'm referring to your own belief on Dariush and his playstyle while you act in contradiction to your own. Your meaning was not clear yet you say that you've cleared it, thoroughly while beating down on Dariush. His purpose is to teach, winning is second-line to him.

My meaning was not clear to you. Let's not get too general here.
Dariush is teaching me lots of stuff, like how to deal with smartasses. If winning is second-line to him, and if he's acting, like you say, then he's willing to lose in order to teach me this lesson. Then why aren't you letting him lose?

To reiterate what I meant by 'spreading information', you are only targeting Dariush out of his comments on your question. You've failed to target anyone else. So let's say Dariush turns out scum if he is lynched today, eh? Who will you target then?

You. Yes, you, Tiruin. Because you're currently defending Dariush like there's no tomorrow.

Let's see. You're saying that I shouldn't attack Dariush because he's trying to teach me something. You're saying that Dariush is being a jerk because he's acting. You're saying that Dariush is not listening because he doesn't understand the meaning of my words. And you're saying that if I'm scum, my arguments are invalid, and you want me to be scum so that my arguments are invalid and Dariush is innocent again.

How the hell do you know so much about Dariush? Why can't you let Dariush say this kind of stuff himself? Why do you feel that you're responsible for explaining Dariush's actions, and why are you giving Dariush permission to do anything he wants because he's just "acting"? Why do you want to disbelieve the accusations I am holding against Dariush? And most important of all: Why do you want to lynch me for that?

[Tiruin]

McFry, it seems we've reached an impasse. You're reading too much into my statements, why is that? All these implications, going defensive and putting words into my mouth? Have I struck a nerve?

To shorten: You did not specifically say that his answer was lacking or unacceptable. You pressed on as if he didn't answer it and continued in the same manner in the proceeding posts.

Also, you say:

The first part of the first question was answered satisfactorily. The second part of the first question is not "How good are they?", because that obviously doesn't help anyone. No, the second part of the question is "What is their playstyle?". Dariush gave an indication to my playstyle, but left out everyone else. And an answer to the second question was left out entirely, which, given your nitpicky attitude, should qualify for you as an unanswered question.

So, unanswered must mean? Yes, I am too dumb to look up the dictionary, or an internet dictionary to see what it means. I'm sure you can do that.

I don't know anything about Dariush at all. Irrelevant of the fact that he is an IC, you attacked him regardless of anything important, other than mis-wording intention. Most of what you say contradicts itself or is stated wrongly.

Also, I'm not voting for Dariush because he doesn't seem scummy at all, other than being a sack of RAEG. What reason should your arguments be invalid if you are scum? I never said that. You implied it from a fragment of a sentence there. I'm not responsible for Dariush's actions, but trying to see if you're actually going by reason: pushing and finding out your target, not relying on one single post to stand on for your only weapon against scum, your vote.

I've stated why I don't believe your accusations earlier, as you had the time to conjure all that text, I'm sure you may have at least skimmed through it.

Guess what a pressure vote does, scum.