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[psychologicalshock]

I almost never reload saves and just go with what happens but this time I couldn't. So you know how it goes - FB dies, no one gets hurt but they begin to track its extract all over the place, the result? Dwarves who wont wear clothes or whose clothes rotted off get infected and die. This bug has persisted for years now and it really ruins the caves for me, I think this is a good example of why open source needs to happen. Toady adds a lot of cool stuff to the game but just doesn't have the time to fix game breaking stuff like this, I know that he doesn't want to because it's his only source of income but at the same time there's a risk of making people quit because of game breaking stuff like this. This is exactly what made me quit years ago -  it's not a legitimate way to lose dwarves, it's just a horribly annoying bug.

P.S. I know there's ways to bypass this problem by putting showers in before the cave but it's annoying extra thing to do. Id rather the dorfs just wear their socks and not have to worry about it.

[FuzzyZergling]

First: This is actually getting fixed in the next release, so good timing.
Second: Bringing up the open source discussion leads to arguments and flame wars, so please don't.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

While I agree that clothes are an annoying bug, and one that I'm going to be happy to see fixed, there's something in your message that rubs me the wrong way.

If people quit, then they quit.  If I was developing a game, I would never set as a goal that people don't quit-- even discounting how many people 'quit' exactly the way you describe: quitting for a year, then coming back, then quitting, then coming back...

I don't know about you, but I thought, I don't know, Half-Life was a good game.  It wasn't perfect, but it was a good game.  Then, I quit.  Just like the developers expected, hardly anybody played their game for forever, and nobody got bothered by that, and that's a game people paid good money for!

[psychologicalshock]

Let me explain.
I started playing this game when I was in 10th grade, I am now end my first year as a  graduate student. I love it and tend to tell all of my friends about it (who also end up playing) but the pattern goes as such: a new version comes out, I start playing and enjoying it greatly, then one bug pops up, I bypass it, then another, then another, then another, soon enough all I am doing is bypassing bugs instead of PLAYING the game. I then quit and wait for the next version, same thing happens, over and over again. I want to keep playing but the bug pile is a very heavy negative that bogs this game down severely. The fact that reported bugs take years to resolve only adds on to the frustration. I have a lot of patience and it takes a lot of bugs to drive me off but it's always been nothing but bugs and I understand that its an alpha and probably will be for a long time, but I still want to be able to at least enjoy a basic game without having my patience constantly tried. If I could get my complaints fixed in a timely manner I would be willing to donate cash monthly, as it is I tend to only want to initially (before disappearing for another year or two)  and I am not the only one who feels this way.

[Necromunger]

Dude did you even read the first reply to you?

Toady is stopping everything now and its fixing shit instead.

Dungeon master system fixed/replaced.

Clothes bugs fixed and the list continues.

[psychologicalshock]

Toady is stopping everything now and its fixing shit instead.

We've gone through this multiple times since  DF began, some things get fixed, some things get broken, and then the fixes stop coming in and we're stuck with the same version for a year or two. It's great that this bug will finally be dealt with but it's been a very long wait.

[Kilroy the Grand]

If you want it to be opensourced, you'll have to pry the code from toady's cold dead hands.

[Necromunger]

Wat...? lol.

Toady: "We're going to start mixing in fixes for older problems to these releases now."

*DM Fixed*, *Clothes Fixed* *Trading animals fixed*, *Injured Dwarf Spam Pick Up Item Fixed*, *Discarded Items Ownership Fixed"

psychologicalshock: "Toady your to late..."

Toady: "But ill have the update out in most likely 3 days..?"

psychologicalshock "Nah.. You fixed bug's before so don't even try, actually just give up. YOU ARE USELESS"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkqrI3IibYI

[psychologicalshock]

Well, if he spent all of the time bugfixing... well, that would be very repetitive and dull to him, and I could only imagine that it would bore him. He fixes as many bugs as he can, and then starts a new update, because if he spent 2 years bugfixing... he would lose all interest in the project. Looking through piles of code to fix tiny little mistakes can get very mundane, especially if you do it for months, or even years.

The community that has proven to have a massive amount of patience to figure out  a bypass for every problem, why not allow it to figure  out the actual fixes?

Wat...? lol.

Toady: "We're going to start mixing in fixes for older problems to these releases now."

*DM Fixed*, *Clothes Fixed* *Trading animals fixed*, *Injured Dwarf Spam Pick Up Item Fixed*, *Discarded Items Ownership Fixed"

psychologicalshock: "Toady your to late..."

Toady: "But ill have the update out in most likely 3 days..?"

psychologicalshock "Nah.. You fixed bug's before so don't even try, actually just give up. YOU ARE USELESS"

I am not blaming Toady for the problems but they have always been massive since the day I began, all of these things once worked in one version or another - it just keeps being broken and fixed because there's a pile of code to go through. I really don't like how emotional people are getting, what's the problem with discussing this openly ? There shouldn't be any restricted topics in a western nation.

[KainInt]

I'm sorry, but do you have any idea how intricate this game is?

Expecting new content to come out and old content to not be affected at all is like hoping to win the pick 5 lottery with 4 numbers.

[psychologicalshock]

I'm sorry, but do you have any idea how intricate this game is?

Expecting new content to come out and old content to not be affected at all is like hoping to win the pick 5 lottery with 4 numbers.

Do people even read what I write? I don't expect any of that, that's why this needs to go open source so that the community can take care of this.

[KainInt]

I'm sorry, but do you have any idea how intricate this game is?

Expecting new content to come out and old content to not be affected at all is like hoping to win the pick 5 lottery with 4 numbers.

Do people even read what I write? I don't expect any of that, that's why this needs to go open source so that the community can take care of this.

"[...] they have always been massive since the day I began, all of these things once worked in one version or another - it just keeps being broken and fixed because there's a pile of code to go through."

That seemed to be what you were implying.

[Kilroy the Grand]

Do people even read what I write? I don't expect any of that, that's why this needs to go open source so that the community can take care of this.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

I really don't like how emotional people are getting, what's the problem with discussing this openly ? There shouldn't be any restricted topics in a western nation.

Nobody's saying they're going to come to your house and gag you.  It's just that you sound like you feel a little bit entitled to Toady's time, when he doesn't owe you or me anything.  If he wants to bugfix, he can bugfix.  If he doesn't want to, he doesn't have to.   (EDIT: If he wants to release code, he can release code, and if he doesn't want, he doesn't have to).  If after playing a free game for several years you want to quit, then quit.

Even if there should be no restricted topics, when somebody sounds like they have a right to somebody else's time or vision, somebody who has already been far more charitable than most, then it's understandable that people get irritated-- get emotional.

I don't have any idea how you really feel, of course.  I'm just talking about how your words feel, to me.  Look, if you're going to quit, quit.  Nobody will judge you for that.  Hell, even write a post about.  Probably most people won't care, but they won't judge you for it either.  But when you say stuff like, "Toady, you need to do this thing to make me happy," then people are going to judge you, because it's a little silly to think that pleasing you is high on Toady's list of priorities-- probably his top priority is pleasing himself.  Which is understandable, and how it should be.

Vonnegut, I've been a really big fan of your work, but sometimes your characters seem just a little bit simple.  That's why you need to permit open source modification of Cat's Cradle.  The open source community can take care of a little bit of the characterization for you.

vs.

Yeah, I was really into Vonnegut for a while, but then I read just a little too much of him, and I can't ignore the simplicity anymore, so I stopped reading him.  But if you want to read him, that totally make sense to me-- after all, I got a lot of enjoyment out of his books for a while.

[slothen]

All I hear is "whine whine whine, this isn't perfect, my dwarfs died.  Toady should make it open source so the bugs will go away."