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Author Topic: When Kickstarter goes wrong?  (Read 678590 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2340 on: July 03, 2013, 11:05:36 am »

Nice, I paid for a 400k game and I'm getting a $6 million game.
Or the project dies in alpha due to internal inefficiencies and lack of sales. Same thing, and a known risk of kickstarting.

But yeah, don't expect a 6 million dollar game. I mean, it might have cost that much to develop, but it won't be equivalent to a succesfull project that started out with a 6 million price tag. Upscaling budgets is very inefficient.
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2341 on: July 03, 2013, 11:09:06 am »

I mean, if you want an example of a well-managed $1 million project: Shadowrun Returns.

They knew their schedule was tight. They did what was necessary to meet their commitments as stated by Kickstarter. They were realistic, responsible and completely transparent about why these things had to be cut. They didn't ask for money, pre-alpha fund the game or any of that jazz. They're not running a black box of millions of dollars of cost and asking for more faith.

That's project and expectation management I can respect. Not "Gee I just can't help myself, sorry! Teehee!"
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Draco18s

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2342 on: July 03, 2013, 11:24:29 am »

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I backed it because I thought the courage to attempt a style of game that hasn't been seen outside Flash (non-existent budget, small/one-man team, indie, short, generally poor) gaming scene was worth getting behind.

You mean like Shadowgate, another Point 'n click adventure game on Kickstarter being made by professional developers, that is on track at a fraction of Schafer's budget? How about Hero-U, another p 'n click game that also doesn't require millions to get made?

Shadowgate: didn't hear about it, looking it up now
Hero-U: backed it. ;)

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And what we want is to not have 25% of a game.  They found a happy medium whereby they put out what they can, garner more sales, and use those sales to fund further production.  It's no different than expanded content DLC...that comes free at a later date.

It's not free though. You may not have paid extra but to reach the game that was promised on Kickstarter, someone else has to foot the bill for it, for it to become a reality. And it's not "fund further production." It's "finish the game we promised." This isn't additional funding, it's necessary funding.

"Borrowing money from the future" is what my backing kickstart is.  I pay now, get something later.  Except there's also 90,000 other people doing the same thing: someone else is paying and I'm getting the product.
"Doing pre-release sales" is the same thing.  Someone else pays now, gets something later.  Again, 90,000 other people are doing the same thing: they pay, I get stuff.

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Kickstarter got the project off the ground and pushed initial funding.

Kickstarter did exactly what it was designed to do.

This is not a failure.

Really? I didn't think the point of Kickstarter was to back so people could have a chance to find find even more funding. I thought the point of Kickstarter was you back to get a product, and you get it, without needing even more 3rd party funding, paid alphas and more hoops.

And how has Doublefine failed that?  They got an initial infusion of cash, I get stuff at "some point in the future," where has the design failed?  Steam Early Access is just an extension of the Slacker Backer system.

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If a product that succeeded on Kickstarter can't succeed just on Kickstarter, I'd call that a failure. Maybe not of Kickstarter. But definitely of the people that put their project on there.

Then all Kickstarters are failures.
My project had to bring in money from the six of us making the project (I think in terms of us paying ourselves for our time and expenses has come out at net 0, if not negative.  We had to hire a lawyer and an accounting firm in order to make sure we weren't going to shoot ourselves in the foot.

The lawyer?  $250 flat.  Not per hour.  Flat.  He was working practically pro-bono, based on how much time he actually spent and how much we paid him.
The accountaints?  Free.  They actually, legitimately, charged us nothing.

Kickstarter didn't do that.  They did.  They decided to be awesome and do work for us out of their own pocket.

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But I guess that doesn't really matter to backers as long as the thing they paid for happens, at some point, by some means. Never mind the message this sends to developers, or the culture it's creating on Kickstarter. That it's ok to make a king's ransom and still ask for more money, since there's no one watching the hen house.

Does anyone remember Penny Arcade's Kickstarter?  The one where they said up front "we're going to run this Kickstarter every year?"  Because the entire "project" was "fund the site for 365 days" so they were going to come back and ask for more repeatedly?

Did we jump all over that in the same way we're jumping on Doublefine?
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Fniff

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2343 on: July 03, 2013, 11:30:02 am »

I think so, actually...

Draco18s

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2344 on: July 03, 2013, 11:34:16 am »

I think so, actually...

I think we actually just harped on the fact that it wasn't a "project."
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2345 on: July 03, 2013, 11:35:31 am »

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Did we jump all over that in the same way we're jumping on Doublefine?

It struck me as not good, FWIW.

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Then all Kickstarters are failures.

Did you have to run a second on IndieGoGo to pay your lawyer? Charge strangers for access to your unfinished product? Seek 3rd party funding?

That's what I'm talking about.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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Zangi

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2346 on: July 03, 2013, 11:37:07 am »

I'm pretty sure people jumped on Penny Arcade. 
Personally, I don't care, its the same thing as random people donating via paypal, instead these random people are donating via kickstarter.  I have no problems with that.  And hey, they gave away stuff to go with it didn't they?
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Draco18s

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2347 on: July 03, 2013, 11:45:12 am »

Did you have to run a second on IndieGoGo to pay your lawyer? Charge strangers for access to your unfinished product? Seek 3rd party funding?

So the accountants doing pro-bono work doesn't count as them paying us to pay them?

Personally, I don't care, its the same thing as random people donating via paypal, instead these random people are donating via kickstarter.  I have no problems with that.  And hey, they gave away stuff to go with it didn't they?

This.
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2348 on: July 03, 2013, 11:56:37 am »

Did you have to run a second on IndieGoGo to pay your lawyer? Charge strangers for access to your unfinished product? Seek 3rd party funding?

So the accountants doing pro-bono work doesn't count as them paying us to pay them?

It's not the same as going outside of Kickstarter for more money to meet your Kickstarter obligations.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Sergius

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2349 on: July 03, 2013, 11:59:56 am »

The Privateer or Wing Commander or whatsitsface project ran a Kickstarter concurrently with other donation sites, plus a straight donation link right on their webpage.
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2350 on: July 03, 2013, 12:00:45 pm »

The Privateer or Wing Commander or whatsitsface project ran a Kickstarter concurrently with other donation sites, plus a straight donation link right on their webpage.

Star Citizen?
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Sergius

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2351 on: July 03, 2013, 12:04:37 pm »

Yes.

EDIT: Relevant: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/school

Quote
Setting Your Goal

Kickstarter operates on an all-or-nothing funding model where projects must be fully funded or no money changes hands. Projects must set a funding goal and a length of time to reach it. There’s no magic formula to determining the right goal or duration. Every project is different, but there are a few things to keep in mind.

Researching your budget

How much money do you need? Are you raising the full budget or a portion of it? Have you factored in the cost of producing rewards and delivering them to backers? Avoid later headaches by doing your research, and be as transparent as you can. Backers will appreciate it.

Considering your networks

Kickstarter is not a magical source of money. Funding comes from a variety of sources — your audience, your friends and family, your broader social networks, and, if your project does well, strangers from around the web. It’s up to you to build that momentum for your project.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 12:30:44 pm by Sergius »
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2352 on: July 03, 2013, 01:04:25 pm »

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Kickstarter is not a magical source of money. Funding comes from a variety of sources — your audience, your friends and family, your broader social networks, and, if your project does well, strangers from around the web. It’s up to you to build that momentum for your project.

That's saying "Simply putting your project up on Kickstarter won't get you money. You have to build hype for it yourselves, among [those sources]." It is not a disclaimer that you will be getting money from other, non-Kickstarter sources regardless of how well your project is funded.

As for Star Citizen, they started doing that almost concurrently with the Kickstarter and have since moved their whole operation off of Kickstarter and done a lot of work to create their own system. At least what was on the table was clear from the start there.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Sergius

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2353 on: July 03, 2013, 01:05:17 pm »

It isn't if you selectively quote the parts that don't state it is. Like the other bolded parts. ::)
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #2354 on: July 03, 2013, 01:07:47 pm »

Yes, one portion of the statement that implies you may not be seeking full funding through Kickstarter completely proves that all projects are expected to get funding outside of Kickstarter at some point.

Frowny face indeed.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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