Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[nenjin]

http://kotaku.com/somehow-tim-schafers-adventure-kickstarter-needs-more-652014092

Spoiler: Facepalm (click to show/hide)

    A Note from Tim

    Hello, Backers of Adventure!

    Those of you who have been following along in the documentary know about the design vs. money tension we’ve had on this project since the early days. Even though we received much more money from our Kickstarter than we, or anybody anticipated, that didn’t stop me from getting excited and designing a game so big that it would need even more money.

    I think I just have an idea in my head about how big an adventure game should be, so it’s hard for me to design one that’s much smaller than Grim Fandango or Full Throttle. There’s just a certain amount of scope needed to create a complex puzzle space and to develop a real story. At least with my brain, there is.

    So we have been looking for ways to improve our project’s efficiency while reducing scope where we could along the way. All while looking for additional funds from bundle revenue, ports, etc. But when we finished the final in-depth schedule recently it was clear that these opportunistic methods weren’t going to be enough.

    We looked into what it would take to finish just first half of our game—Act 1. And the numbers showed it coming in July of next year. Not this July, but July 2014. For just the first half. The full game was looking like 2015! My jaw hit the floor.

    This was a huge wake-up call for all of us. If this were true, we weren’t going to have to cut the game in half, we were going to have to cut it down by 75%! What would be left? How would we even cut it down that far? Just polish up the rooms we had and ship those? Reboot the art style with a dramatically simpler look? Remove the Boy or Girl from the story? Yikes! Sad faces all around.

    Would we, instead, try to find more money? You guys have been been very generous in the tip jar (thanks!) but this is a larger sum of money we were talking about. Asking a publisher for the money was out of the question because it would violate the spirit of the Kickstarter, and also, publishers. Going back to Kickstarter for it seemed wrong. Clearly, any overages were going to have to be paid by Double Fine, with our own money from the sales of our other games. That actually makes a lot of sense and we feel good about it. We have been making more money since we began self-publishing our games, but unfortunately it still would not be enough.

    Then we had a strange idea. What if we made some modest cuts in order to finish the first half of the game by January instead of July, and then released that finished, polished half of the game on Steam Early Access? Backers would still have the option of not looking at it, of course, but those who were sick of waiting wouldn’t have to wait any more. They could play the first half of the game in January!

    We were always planning to release the beta on Steam, but in addition to that we now have Steam Early Access, which is a new opportunity that actually lets you charge money for pre-release content. That means we could actually sell this early access version of the game to the public at large, and use that money to fund the remaining game development. The second part of the game would come in a free update a few months down the road, closer to April-May.

    So, everybody gets to play the game sooner, and we don’t have to cut the game down drastically. Backers still get the whole game this way—nobody has to pay again for the second half.

    And whatever date we start selling the early release, backers still have exclusive beta access before that, as promised in the Kickstarter.

    I want to point out that Broken Age’s schedule changes have nothing to do with the team working slowly. They have been kicking ass and the game looks, plays, and sounds amazing. It’s just taking a while because I designed too much game, as I pretty much always do. But we’re pulling it in, and the good news is that the game’s design is now 100% done, so most of the unknowns are now gone and it’s not going to get any bigger.

    With this shipping solution I think we’re balancing the size of the game and the realities of funding it pretty well. We are still working out the details and exact dates, but we’d love to hear your thoughts. This project has always been something we go through together and the ultimate solution needs to be something we all feel good about.

    In the meantime, I’m hoping you are enjoying the documentary and like the progress you’re seeing on Broken Age. I’m really exciting about how it’s coming together, I can’t wait for you to see more of it, and I feel good about finally having a solid plan on how to ship it!

    Thanks for reading,

    Tim

Aaaannnddd it begins.

[MrWiggles]

So, what you're saying that kickstarter projects are magically protected against going over budget?

[Bdthemag]

Tim Schafer got 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR HIS ADVENTURE GAME. 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS.

That's a lot of money, and the fact that he went over-budget for this with a POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME shows that he either is spending this poorly, or just wants more money.

[10ebbor10]

FYI, the original kickstarter goal was 400 000. They were funded 8 times over.

[MrWiggles]

Tim Schafer got 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR HIS ADVENTURE GAME. 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS.

That's a lot of money, and the fact that he went over-budget for this with a POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME shows that he either is spending this poorly, or just wants more money.

He raised 3.3m but he doesnt have 3.3 for the game. There the kickstarter fee, the cost for the rewards and taxes. He still got more then what he was originally asking for, but as far as video game budget goes, hes gotta take a mad piss and can barely afford the pot to do it in.

FYI, the original kickstarter goal was 400 000. They were funded 8 times over.

And?

He asked for 400k for a game with X feature set.

He got wai moar money then that, and expanded that feature list.

So the original starting amount, is arguably a none-issue, as he not making that 400k game anymore. Hes attempting to make this much more expanded 3.3m game.

[Zangi]

All I can say to this is 'le sigh'.  Physical rewards/fees probably take quite a chunk of change... (Why I personally rather the kickstarters not offer them or at least ask for way more before handing em out.)  And feature bloat 'cause I got so much monies, I don't know what to do with it... so lets do everything'.
Selling it off early with free updates/expansions is a good alternative to asking for more money at least.  So the solution to the problem ain't bad at all.
Well, I didn't back this anyways, cause not as interested in adventure games.

[nenjin]

Tim Schafer got 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR HIS ADVENTURE GAME. 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS.

That's a lot of money, and the fact that he went over-budget for this with a POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME shows that he either is spending this poorly, or just wants more money.

He raised 3.3m but he doesnt have 3.3 for the game. There the kickstarter fee, the cost for the rewards and taxes. He still got more then what he was originally asking for, but as far as video game budget goes, hes gotta take a mad piss and can barely afford the pot to do it in.

FYI, the original kickstarter goal was 400 000. They were funded 8 times over.

And?

He asked for 400k for a game with X feature set.

He got wai moar money then that, and expanded that feature list.

So the original starting amount, is arguably a none-issue, as he not making that 400k game anymore. Hes attempting to make this much more expanded 3.3m game.

Which doesn't cost 3.3 million. By his own numbers, roughly 6 million.

If the head of a studio can't budget himself for 3.3 million, and KNOWINGLY GOES OVER, and then asks for more money, I'd call that a problem.

Seriously, you overfund 8x, go insane on features, don't exercise any of the restraint knowing you have a limited budget....and it's all hunky dorey because you're going to release your game in stages through a paid alpha?

This is basically what I've been waiting for since the first $1 million kickstarter. Guys get way more funding than they asked for, throw caution to the wind, expand their teams, start dreaming of the $20 million dollar game they would have made with publisher monies, and then end up needing far more money than they earned. And they plow ahead because they know the internet is just going to throw more money at them.

It's about accountability in my mind. It's the same routine with publishers, just half the money.

"So how are things going Tim?"

"Well, we're about 2 years off schedule. We're going to need another cash infusion."

"*Sigh* for how much?"

"Not sure. How much you got?"

Except now it's done with smiles and snark (Thanks for putting into the "tip jar?" Nice, ass.)

Basically, it's undercutting the premise that Kickstarter will actually get you anything when it comes to projects like this, because they dream bigger than their funding allows. Why would I back a Kickstarter knowing the game will have to end up on Early Access to have a prayer of making release?
 
And Tim even basically said "without more money, I'd have to scrap the game I sold you guys on Kickstarter." I mean, he can't even put up Part 1 of his game on $3.3 million. Think about that, in comparison to alllll the other projects that have released their Kickstarter titles.

How is that not a problem? How does terrible business management like that not send up red flags? Oh right. He's Tim Schafer. The rules don't apply to him. Yet people will excoriate an unknown developer for asking for $10,000 more than they personally think the project is worth.

[Sergius]

Nice, I paid for a 400k game and I'm getting a $6 million game.

[nenjin]

Or you're getting a $1 million dollar game with $5 million worth of overhead.

[Draco18s]

I didn't back the project because I thought it would be well managed.

I backed it because I thought the courage to attempt a style of game that hasn't been seen outside the Flash (non-existent budget, small/one-man team, indie, short, generally poor) gaming scene was worth getting behind.

I loved games like Myst, Dig, King's Quest (even if I was ultimately terrible at them).  Heck, I went out and bought The Longest Journey not that long ago and put in a near-continuous 17 hours watching every, every cut scene.  Despite the low resolution graphics, the voice acting was superb, the story engaging, the scenery amazing, and the characters memorable.  I figured out one reveal ages before it happened, but I also suspected that it was intended to be obvious to the players...as a distraction from the real twist.

I backed Doublefine on the expectation that at some point, eventually, I'll have a game to play that will be different.  NOT on the expectation that it would be perfect, complete, or on time.

Hell, I'm barely even reading the updates they put out, I'm not on the forums, and I'm only tangentially engaged in what's going on.  I would like to be surprised at the result rather than disappointed.

Ok, yeah, they overscoped and are now going to be overbudget, but they're doing the right thing with what they have, what they want, and what they know that we--as the fans--would want.  And what we want is to not have 25% of a game.  They found a happy medium whereby they put out what they can, garner more sales, and use those sales to fund further production.  It's no different than expanded content DLC...that comes free at a later date.

Kickstarter got the project off the ground and pushed initial funding.

Kickstarter did exactly what it was designed to do.

This is not a failure.

[nenjin]

I backed it because I thought the courage to attempt a style of game that hasn't been seen outside Flash (non-existent budget, small/one-man team, indie, short, generally poor) gaming scene was worth getting behind.

You mean like Shadowgate, another Point 'n click adventure game on Kickstarter being made by professional developers, that is on track at a fraction of Schafer's budget? How about Hero-U, another p 'n click game that also doesn't require millions to get made?

And what we want is to not have 25% of a game.  They found a happy medium whereby they put out what they can, garner more sales, and use those sales to fund further production.  It's no different than expanded content DLC...that comes free at a later date.

It's not free though. You may not have paid extra but to reach the game that was promised on Kickstarter, someone else has to foot the bill for it, for it to become a reality. And it's not "fund further production." It's "finish the game we promised." This isn't additional funding, it's necessary funding.

Kickstarter got the project off the ground and pushed initial funding.

Kickstarter did exactly what it was designed to do.

This is not a failure.

Really? I didn't think the point of Kickstarter was to back so people could have a chance to find find even more funding. I thought the point of Kickstarter was you back to get a product, and you get it, without needing even more 3rd party funding, paid alphas and more hoops.

If a product that succeeded on Kickstarter can't succeed just on Kickstarter, I'd call that a failure. Maybe not of Kickstarter. But definitely of the people that put their project on there.

But I guess that doesn't really matter to backers as long as the thing they paid for happens, at some point, by some means. Never mind the message this sends to developers, or the culture it's creating on Kickstarter. That it's ok to make a king's ransom and still ask for more money, since there's no one watching the hen house.

[Sergius]

Draco, I agree 100% and couldn't have said it better.

The funniest thing, there are already people on this thread condemning projects for raising 10x times the asked amount but not delivering 10x the product (basically pocketing the rest as profit).
Now, we have someone who RAGES because a project got more money and decided to spend it all, and maybe got a little too excited and overspent.

Even tho they have been very transparent, and declared the reason they're not asking for more Kickstarter money OR going with a traditional publisher is because of the promise they made when starting the project, and came with a viable alternative instead.

[nenjin]

Draco, I agree 100% and couldn't have said it better.

The funniest thing, there are already people on this thread condemning projects for raising 10x times the asked amount but not delivering 10x the product (basically pocketing the rest as profit).
Now, we have someone who RAGES because a project got more money and decided to spend it all, and maybe got a little too excited and overspent.

Even tho they have been very transparent, and declared the reason they're not asking for more Kickstarter money OR going with a traditional publisher is because of the promise they made when starting the project, and came with a viable alternative instead.

Can you point me to their financial statements, or the financials of other Kickstarters, to prove this point? No, you can't. No one can, and that's the freaking point. Everything has to be taken on faith, or at the very least, the finished product. So pardon me if I don't just take someone word that they spent $3.3 million on purely game things.

And seriously. More than $3 million for a point and click adventure game? I eagerly await the final product so I can see exactly what that kind of money buys.

[Sergius]

Prove what? Do you want to audit them?

Go ahead by all means. While you're at it, audit McDonalds to prove that that extra $0.50 you paid really went to purchase extra bacon.

[nenjin]

Prove what? Do you want to audit them?

Frankly, I'd love an audit of every Kickstarter I back. And I'd love audits of every Kickstarter than exceeds funding by 100%. A way cut through all the smiley, warm fuzzy BS that developers can say now that they're not beholden to a contract.