Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[lordcooper]

I remember when some of the earlier kickstarters actually took advantage of the kickstarter to actually make their final products free. On a side note I am wondering how Grandroids is comming along.

There was a pretty big breakthrough yesterday.  I'll update the thread.

[Zangi]

In with the current debate, I'm of the opinion that the kickstarter people have the right to spend the 'profits' as they would.    In many cases, I would definitely expect the money to be used as 'vacation time' to work on the project, if their financial situation allows it. 
There are some on-going 'projects' out there, like DF, that are running solely on donations.  So it wouldn't be too far of a difference...  Honestly, I don't see any problem with this.

What with many of these developers... well, the better ones anyways, they have the ability to make a game or something of the likes that a backer would want, but is unable to make/get otherwise without funding.

But yea, there are no checks and balances.  A failed kickstarter just amounts to a failed investment.  You ain't likely to get a red cent back since people asking for money ain't likely to have much to begin with and they've probably spent it all before the investor(you) realize its all going down the flusher. 
That is business for ya, even if people decide to invest in stupid ideas or some unreliable person/people.  It ain't anyone's problem you put your bet on something that smells bad.

(In an alternate universe, the developer becomes an indentured servant till all debts are paid off.)
(In another alternate universe, the developer gets capped and/or close friends and family are 'convinced' to pay back the investment.)
EDIT: ^ Ethically and Morally Horrible in the standards of modern western society...  but, awesome if Kickstarter did do that.

[MrWiggles]

I agree to some extent, that kickstarter project poeple do have the right spend the profits as they see fit. But I kinda of dont. I think there defiant contract that, I give you these moneys, you give me my rewards and used whatever left over toward what the project is.


Like, Faster Then Light, they asked for 10k, and got 100k. But when I play the game, I dont see 100k worth of game there. All I see, is 10k dollar game. I think there an argument to be made, for at least some transparency where that extra money went.

[Leafsnail]

If they don't set any stretchgoals then not really?  It's more like they just took some extra pre-orders.

[MorleyDev]

It's crude and I don't trust it, but it was the first thing that came up with google. Plus I'm just pretending experienced artists and programmers get the same pay. But still, look at it this way: according to this, in the US
"The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the median annual wage for computer programmers was $71,380 in 2010. The best-paid 10 percent in the field made approximately $114,180 while the bottom 10 percent made approximately $40,820. The highest-paid in the profession work in the metropolitan areas of Rochester, Minn., Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, N.Y., and San Jose, Calif."

Two people developed that game and if you completely ignore the self-funding before Kickstarter, from kickstarter success (March) to release (September), it took them 7 months. So the time of an experienced programmer for 7 months of work is worth $23,812. Over twice what they where asking for. For one computer programmer.  Earning the average of the bottom 10%.

And they did mention that a big benefit of that kickstarter was being able contract out the audio assets, specifically the music. That full soundtrack by Ben Prunty was not cheap. And it let them afford to do an extensive beta test through kickstarter, and fix the bugs that where reported (which, trust me, is never a quick and easy job). Which they couldn't of afforded to do otherwise.

[Criptfeind]

Like, Faster Then Light, they asked for 10k, and got 100k. But when I play the game, I dont see 100k worth of game there. All I see, is 10k dollar game. I think there an argument to be made, for at least some transparency where that extra money went.

How is that different then normal games though that are not kick started?

Like say, Minecraft, which has sold like what, five million copies? At about 15-25 dollars per copy that is... carry the two and subtract the three... About a billion billion dollars. But the game itself is still like. Well I don't think there is anyone in the world that thinks minecraft cost fifty million dollars to make. Where the hell is all that extra money going? What the fuck is profit?

And even if you were to say kickstarter is not about profit (which is fair enough) what do you suggest they do about it? Not let people join the kickstarter? Or force them to stretch the dev time out another three years? Nether of those seem reasonable to me. Where is the actual 'wrong' being done?

[Darvi]

The actual wrong is where people start bitching about not getting more for their money than they bargained for.

[lordcooper]

As far as I'm concerned, everything up to the target and/or any stretch goals should definitely be used on the game.  Beyond that, it's fair game.

My little sister asked if I could get her some art supplies the other day, so I chucked her a £50 for some.  I expect her to spend that on art supplies.  If I'd given her £250,000 instead then I'd have to be utterly insane to expect her to spend it all on arty stuff.

[Darvi]

I think a better comparison would be if you gave her 50£, and she got even more money from your parents immediately afterwards. You can't tell her what to spend the money on, because it wasn't even yours in the first place.

[Neonivek]

I think a better comparison would be if you gave her 50£, and she got even more money from your parents immediately afterwards. You can't tell her what to spend the money on, because it wasn't even yours in the first place.

Uhh you certainly can.

When I give my friend 20 dollars to spend on lunch with the intent that there is going to be change he will give me. It is up to him to try to make sure I get some return.

This friend I am refering to often would use the entire twenty dollars (hense why I never let him borrow money)

[Darvi]

Your comparison falls flat at the point where you give people more money than you actually intend them to have.

[MrWiggles]

If they don't set any stretchgoals then not really?  It's more like they just took some extra pre-orders.

Kickstarter has said a few times, that they are not a store, or a pre-order system. So thats going against the spirit of their service, if not their TOU.

Like, Faster Then Light, they asked for 10k, and got 100k. But when I play the game, I dont see 100k worth of game there. All I see, is 10k dollar game. I think there an argument to be made, for at least some transparency where that extra money went.

How is that different then normal games though that are not kick started?

Like say, Minecraft, which has sold like what, five million copies? At about 15-25 dollars per copy that is... carry the two and subtract the three... About a billion billion dollars. But the game itself is still like. Well I don't think there is anyone in the world that thinks minecraft cost fifty million dollars to make. Where the hell is all that extra money going? What the fuck is profit?

And even if you were to say kickstarter is not about profit (which is fair enough) what do you suggest they do about it? Not let people join the kickstarter? Or force them to stretch the dev time out another three years? Nether of those seem reasonable to me. Where is the actual 'wrong' being done?

This isn't helpful as Minecraft used a different means to fund their game. SO it has different standards to go by.

[Cthulhu]

Not to mention a shitload of people have complained about Notch pissing away their money.

[Criptfeind]

This isn't helpful as Minecraft used a different means to fund their game. SO it has different standards to go by.

Why?

Not to mention a shitload of people have complained about Notch pissing away their money.

Why the fuck are they buying it then?

[alway]

This is silly. If I ask for $500 to publish my card game, and for whatever reason you give me $50,000, you should not expect me to put my entire life and plans on hold to upgrade the card game to be holographs run on unicorn farts. If you expect someone to change their long term plans because you were stupid and gave them more money than they ever could have needed, that's your own damn fault.

And as for 'not getting what you felt was x amount worth,' that's stupid too. You chose to give the money, much more than they asked for, and without any guarantees of quality. You chose to use an inherently risky method, and if you don't feel it worked out for you, tough luck.