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[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

[defending things I like from perceived slight]
   Just going to put it out there that GURPS mechanically is not a bad system. I can't speak about actual play but I have read the rules and from what I saw it should work quite well. Also Munchkin is fun if you can understand the premise it was created under. It was created to represent being a Munchkin in a card game.
[/defending things I like from perceived slight]

[penguinofhonor]

Munchkin is tremendous fun. I'm not sure how you would screw up munchkin besides mashing too many decks together.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

   Honestly as long as your not playing with a bunch of dicks even playing with most of the decks can be fun though the shuffling is murder on the hands.

[freeformschooler]

Being someone who's extensively played and run GURPS games, I gotta agree with Sowelu. On top of what he said, if you don't wing a lot of things it can become painfully slow, especially in combat. Then again, the books do say it's fine to throw out the rules that aren't fun.

[Draco18s]

if you don't wing a lot of things it can become painfully slow, especially in combat.

Que?
In my (admittedly limited) experience of playing GURPS, combat was very fast.  We've got players who do something like 2d6 to 5d6 damage (people and such have 10 hit points).  On average hitting someone means they're dead.

My complaint about GURPS is that with two qualities (Wild Talent, Retention) you can effectively increase your exp/karma gain by 2 every session (on top of the 3 to 5 you get for having been present).

[PTTG??]

The GURPS discussion will ideally move to this thread.

[nenjin]

   To be fair he is not asking money to do the game, he was going to release it anyway. The Kickstarter is so he could release more then just a few thousand copies of it and also to gauge interest. I mean really one the thing that happens if they reach 550k (which being at ~524k is near) they start interviewing for a Orge line manager. This is not and never was about getting money to make something or finance something. It was all about seeing how interested people where in having the Orge line make a comeback.

There were plenty of ways to gauge interest in Steve Jackson games outside of Kickstarter. So I disagree that it "was never about getting money."

[Grakelin]

Its Steve Jackson. He made GURPS and Munchkin. Anything he tries to do will get people interested.

Funny, I hate both those things. >:-(

But I'm not an anti-Jackson Grognard. I liked this one pirate game he made once.

[Servant Corps]

   To be fair he is not asking money to do the game, he was going to release it anyway. The Kickstarter is so he could release more then just a few thousand copies of it and also to gauge interest. I mean really one the thing that happens if they reach 550k (which being at ~524k is near) they start interviewing for a Orge line manager. This is not and never was about getting money to make something or finance something. It was all about seeing how interested people where in having the Orge line make a comeback.

There were plenty of ways to gauge interest in Steve Jackson games outside of Kickstarter. So I disagree that it "was never about getting money."

I'll defend Steve Jackson here in that trying to ask people if they were willing to throw away their money to him for preorders is way better than asking, say, on a forum that may be frequented by hyper-fans of ORGE who may not reflect the average consumer. It's cheaper to say you want to give money to Steve Jackson than it is to actually do it.

There may be other ways to gauge interest, but Kickstarter is probably the most effective method of doing so.

[Scelly9]

Its Steve Jackson. He made GURPS and Munchkin. Anything he tries to do will get people interested.

Funny, I hate both those things. >:-(

But a lot of people love them.

[nenjin]

It's really just my mostly unfair desire for large, well-funded individuals and companies to not try to cash in on crowdsourcing. Of all the types that might, Steve Jackson bothers me the least. But the guy is a board and card game mogul. When companies like EA decide to start dabbling in Kickstarter (EA has already released an "EA Indie Bundle"), to me it's going to change the nature of the beast. I don't mind taking a risk on up and comers, long shots and dreams come true. I feel like that's what Kickstarter is all about.

I do mind paying up front to large professional corporations because I think that leads to zero accountability with them. So I really should be happy that it's doing so well, but again...I don't really want Kickstarter to turn into an alternative form of marketing and preorders for the AAA industry.

[Lord Dullard]

nenjin, I'm totally with you on that one. Unfortunately it's really up to Kickstarter to draw the line on that one. I don't feel too confident that their decision about where 'the line' is will be satisfactory to those of us who want a real future for the indie gaming industry. I think that if they sell out too much, though, the fight will move elsewhere eventually and Kickstarter will be left behind.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

   The thing is that if some big AAA game company ever did do it and fail to come through they would lose out big time. Kickstarter is all about trust and if you break it you lose it and with this kind of thing, unlike when you make a bad game or don't come through normally it will have a lasting affect because its no longer a company bungling things up, its a company betraying. Anyway I don't think that an actual AAA game company can tap into the crowd-sourcing idea. As of now how many of the big Kickstarter projects have been put out there by a big company? I don't personally know of any except for new companies which are more of some guy and a few friends. All of the big hits have been one of the people we trust from the past coming forward and asking us to help make the past into the present. The Orge kickstarter would be going nowhere if instead of Steve Jackson personally asking us it had been his company.

[nenjin]

I think you underestimate the fan base of EA and the like games. If Treyarch made a personal appeal to the CoD fan base on Kickstarter and set a moderate goal, the chances of failure would be pretty low I think and it could easily rake in several million dollars. Especially when Activision could easily front the bill for the rewards.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

   But then its not EA or Activision who is doing the Kickstarter, its Treyarch. There is a difference and its a big one. If it failed to live up to what was expected then Treyarch would be the one personally losing face, you can't not take responcibility when your the one who took public responsibility. Also what would be the difference from Steve Jackson asking for support in something we all know he can deliver on and Treyarch asking his fandom the same thing thing? Does playing CoD suddenly make you less of a valid supporter on Kickstarter?