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[kaenneth]

Then there is the fun concept of transferring consciousness into computers...

Lets say instead of an instant copy, you start with brain implants, until slowly, you can't function without them; like being unable to remember a phone number you had stored in speed dial, except not remembering how to breath... like a pacemaker... until eventually your mind is entirely electronic; they you can just plug in, and turn of the breathing and heart beating and digestion, but still be you, or not?

Comes down to the Ship of Theseus question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

"This is my grandfathers axe, the blades been replaced three times, and the handle twice, but it's still my grandfathers axe."

[King DZA]

You see, I wouldn't be up for this at all, because in the event that something went wrong and there were two of me suddenly wandering about, I can promise that neither of us would be up for vaporization, meaning we would either end up having to constantly run from the government in order to protect each other from such a fate, or become arch-nemeses, each hell-bent on removing the other from existence.

[kaijyuu]

I prefer Car Talk's interpretation of the whole replacement thing:

The National Public Radio show Car Talk has occasionally addressed this paradox in the context of automotive reliability. The consensus has emerged that if an unreliable or quirky vehicle has all of its parts replaced, the vehicle will remain unreliable or quirky, with the phenomenon sometimes being referred to as "Carma".

[Descan]

Personally I think that as long as you do it gradually enough, you retain continuity. Mostly based off recent discoveries that neurons die and are created throughout life, albeit not at the same rate as when you are young. So it already happens.

Though I wouldn't replace parts wholesale with implants, but instead with nano-particles that act like neurons, on an individual basis. I've nothing against -adding- implants, though.

[Tarran]

Personally I think that as long as you do it gradually enough, you retain continuity.

Agreed.

[Flying Dice]

Personally I think that as long as you do it gradually enough, you retain continuity.

Agreed.

I agree as well. I think the issue at hand is that teleportation would replace everything instantly, which could arguably make the person on the other side not you.


So basically we could do very slow teleportation, but when you're taking a few years to teleport a few hundred kilometers, why bother?

[Fenrir]

All have failed to adequately explain why the speed of the transition makes the result any less unlike the original. Continuity is merely change that is so slow as to evade our notice, but it is not the less a change.

I agree that we do change into different people throughout our lives, and this is not only expected, but good and encouraged, but, until I understand this odd thing called “consciousness”, I shall refrain from teleportation.

[Tarran]

Fenrir, I think we were agreeing about something other than. Namely, transferring consciousness into a computer.

Unless you were arguing against that?

[Fenrir]

I was responding to what Flying Dice said. He seems to imply that the speed of the transition makes it different, and, as he was agreeing with you two, I assumed that such is what you were implying as well.

Transferring a mind into a computer would be copying in the same way that teleportation would be.

[Tarran]

Transferring a mind into a computer would be copying in the same way that teleportation would be.

No. There's a difference.

Teleportation would be stopping your existence, moving it over, and continuing on. You are not alive while it is happening, your mind is stopped while the transfer is happening, and it all happens at once. It is copying a state of you and destroying the original.

Transferring to a computer slowly, as we argued, would be replacing parts one by one. You are alive while it is happening, your mind will (or will not for the most part, depending on the method) be still active while this is happening, and it happens piece by piece so you know what is happening. It is modifying you until you are 'replaced'.

Entirely different.

[Fenrir]

Suppose I have two axes: axe A and axe B. I use both for a year. After a year, both are worn, so I throw away axe A and buy a new one. I just replace the head of axe B. I then proceed to use them both for another year. At the end of the next year, I replace the handle of axe B.

Now, at the end of the second year, are both axes different from the original two? Is axe A now a different axe from the one I had two years ago? Is axe B a different axe?

[Tarran]

I don't think you can compare axes to the human brain and consciousness. Can the axe think? Is the axe aware of itself? Is the axe alive?

[Frumple]

I... don't think we can compare anything to the whole destruction/reconstruction teleportation thing. We can make analogies, but there's not much in the natural world and very little in the unnatural (and certainly nothing involving sentients in either, that we know of) that actually allow for direct comparison.

Destruction/reconstruction teleportation would be a really interesting experiment, honestly. Hell, simple copying would both answer and create many incredibly fascinating questions.

As for me, totally would go for d/r teleportation, just to see what it was like.

[Fenrir]

@Tarran: Does the fact that my mind has “moving parts” make the difference?

[Flying Dice]

Actually, I think we have a way around the problem, assuming FTL data transmission exists (given teleportation, it should): Upload your consciousness to a computer, transmit it to the destination, download it into the body of a clone. Your consciousness is intact at all stages of the operation.