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[bombzero]

So first off, why is their a benefit to using ramps instead of stairs? is it pathfinding? do dwarves do something odd when traversing stairs?

and what is a decent way to do stockpiles? vertically? individual by workshop? or clustered(i.e. mixed stockpile with workshops all around, possibly conglomeration of other stockpiles for space saving)?

Is it really worth the time to add different bedroom districts near every work area, and a dining room for each floor? possibly expounding on this using burrows to keep dwarves on their floor?

i may think of more, just wondering where a few seemingly common ideas came from.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Ramps have two benefits: they do not access the same number of tiles (which affects fps), and the combine vertical and horizontal movement (which affects dwarven efficiency).  In my opinion, neither benefit stands up to scrutiny-- in any realistic fortress, I argue they do not provide a benefit.

The ideal place to put a stockpile is close, in a direct path from where it is likely to be accessed.  Personally, I find it's easier to do it efficiently when doing it vertically, and organizing workshops that use the same stockpile in the same "tower".  Mixed stockpiles are to be avoided-- they mean that, for instance, a mason has to trudge over wood to get stone, when that's not necessary to the design.

Adding different bedroom districts is efficient, but it's up to you whether it's worth the trouble.  Because I tend to work close to the surface, I sometimes place a bedroom/dining room/food+drink near my magma forges, which can be quite a trudge away.  I feel like it's not worth it for other workshops, but then, I'm not one of those people who build industrial centers-- 1 workshop, not even of every kind, is sufficient for me.  I find burrows restrictions to be a headache, when dwarves can be given functional "burrows" just by sensible design, but they can come in handy for restricting access to certain goods (decoration, which I also tend to avoid).

[bombzero]

hmm nice advice, however on the topic of stairs i did my own research. it would seem dwarves have a tendency to do this..

Code: [Select]

.
...
  .
  .
 ..
..
.
where . is a step they take on the way to their destination in a 3x3 staircase, they don't seem to move diagonally, and randomly shift around the staircase.
one slightly more efficient design using ramps is to do a 2x2 like this

Code: [Select]

###^^#
##^++#
##^++#
######
and rotate the design every floor, takes very few steps, and as an added bonus can be widened to 3x3 for trader access to a deep depot, meaning less hauling for dwarves.

still considering stockpiles. came up with something interesting.

have say a... 17x17 stockpile of a type of material, with a 2x2 up/down stair in the center, that has a square of low traffic designated around it. have 5x5 workshop areas for workshops that use the same type of material as the central stockpile, now create one giant stockpile that encompasses the entire floor, included the rooms with their workshops in the center, delete all areas of this stockpile not in the tiles around the workshops. set this segmented, but combined stockpile to take from the central stockpile, your haulers now take materials to the squares around a workshop from the central stockpile, and to the central pile from anywhere else. the traffic designations around the stairs prevent lag from dwarves searching that area for shortcuts.

[KtosoX]

...
one slightly more efficient design using ramps is to do a 2x2 like this

Code: [Select]

###^^#
##^++#
##^++#
######
and rotate the design every floor, takes very few steps, and as an added bonus can be widened to 3x3 for trader access to a deep depot, meaning less hauling for dwarves.
...

My latest fort is designed around a central spiral ramp. I had to widen it up to a 5 x 5 so my dorfs stop bumping in to each other. But that design seems fairly natural and seems to work juts like an up/down staircase.

[Hotaru]

You would think the easiest and most efficient ramp design is just something like central ramp going diagonally across the map - 3x3 rooms on both sides with direct access from ramp on every level. A "leaning tower" inside the ground. Assuming dwarves really move across a ramp in one step, ascending the leaning tower should be slightly faster than ascending a stairway of similar height.

[Malarauko]

My current fort has one big ramp going down into the heart of the fort. If you've ever read Gemclod its basically that.

[Psieye]

The other reason I go ramps is out of safety concerns - it's possible to fall down an entire staircase when knocked unconscious. You can only fall down 1 z-level with ramps.

[Neyvn]

I generally build above ground. Ramps = 1 Unit of Build Material, Stairs = 2 Units. The only time I use Stairs is when I need to have them go up more then one tile over an important area such as a bedroom capsule design...

[Couchmonster]

The other reason I go ramps is out of safety concerns - it's possible to fall down an entire staircase when knocked unconscious. You can only fall down 1 z-level with ramps.

!!SCIENCE!!
You mean you can fall 100z-level Stairs?!
Rocktraps + stairs!

[dragginmaster]

Ramps vs stairs.

Like everything else in DF, every player has their preference and are prepared to defend it with magma.

I consider ramps to be... mountain sides, or the sides of a hole being dug.

Very seldom do I use them, but, thats my non-scientific preference.

*loads magma cannons for defense of my opinion*

[Triaxx2]

One of the few places I use stairs is on the backs of workshops.

Each one has two linked stockpiles, above and below. Below is full of raw materials. Above has 'finished' goods. Keeps them from wandering off to look for things, and means they'll only go to those two stockpiles. I also usually add accessways above and below, but if you do you need to remember to have doors on those as well for incidents. I like to link them all to one lever.

[dragginmaster]

One of the few places I use stairs is on the backs of workshops.

Each one has two linked stockpiles, above and below. Below is full of raw materials. Above has 'finished' goods. Keeps them from wandering off to look for things, and means they'll only go to those two stockpiles. I also usually add accessways above and below, but if you do you need to remember to have doors on those as well for incidents. I like to link them all to one lever.

Wouldnt  q->l be just as secure for locking doors during incidents and not rely on a dwarf to actually pull the lever in time?

[telamon]

summary of this thread:

Like everything else in DF, every player has their preference and are prepared to defend it with magma.

But my opinion on the matter is that ramps are not worth the extra space they take up to install when working underground. It's too much trouble to plan out the shape of a spiral ramp for me, when I can just drill a shaft of stairs straight down into the earth - it saves a prodigious amount of space in small areas, where spiral ramps are too big. In addition, safety concerns about falling down long flights of stairs are irrelevant if you deploy hatch covers judiciously. I have little difficulty laying down piles of hatch covers and placing one over every single down staircase in my fortress. If some stupid dwarf decides to fall down the stairs, he'll only drop one or two flights to drop through before he can get up and shake himself out. (And if he can't stand that impact, my fortress doesn't have much use for him anyway =P)

Malarauko raised a point that I admit I didn't think about, though - aboveground, ramps would probably be more convenient for small structures than stairs, because you don't need to build a ramp on both the entry and exit floors to facilitate access.

This thread gave me a new idea though: vertically diagonal fortress. Build your fortress around a single long strip of ramps descending straight down, no spiraling allowed. Gotta try this some time.

[Poindexterity]

you've asked a lot of opinion based questions.
try em all out, see what works for you and what doesn't.
This is YOUR game dude.

oh, and wagons can't go down stairs.

[kaijyuu]

IMO the biggest concern is dwarves bumping into each other on the way up/down. They have to repath every time they do that.

I'd go with a 2x2 set of staircases if FPS is of utmost concern.