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[NW_Kohaku]

OK, apparently, liquids are NOT cleaned up seasonally. 

I restarted the fort, made around 1,000,000 boulders just before the season change (day 18 of the third month in Summer because Spring passed me by when I was in another window), and I left my fort running overnight to get to the season change.

It was still Autumn when I woke up.

I'm going to have to rethink how I'm doing this liquid test.

For now, I think I'll just try the vaporizing temperature test, instead, but first, I want to corroborate the caravan data.

[Hotaru]

You should do it two ways

1) See that the save I posted gets you a lower FPS than the virginal fork save (the FPS drop has to do with the saved content proper)
2) See that the same process happens to you (the FPS drop happens in several instances of DF)

[NW_Kohaku]

Vaporizing tests are going smoothly, so to speak.

Running at 40 FPS relatively reliably, so it'll basically take all day to run this test for a year.

Spoiler: Some of these guys really need some Beano (click to show/hide)

I've downloaded the trading save, and will run it when this thing is done.

[NW_Kohaku]

SDFLKJSDFLKSDF!

Power cut out in late winter, and I hadn't saved the progress on the vaporizor tests.  That's basically the last day's worth of leaving the simulation running down the drain, since the liquification tests are going to need to be rerun, as well.

I guess I'll just run through Hotaru's data sample, and then run my own large caravan w/ large tradeaways test after that, and just leave the vaporization tests for when I go to sleep again.

[NW_Kohaku]

Hotaru - I downloaded your save, and don't notice any drop in FPS.  The memory consumption in Task Manager (which I think is a more reliable meter at this time than just watching the FPS count) is also only 10 megs higher than normal.

I also looked in your save's raws, and the trade capacity isn't any higher than normal, either. 

It's also only in the winter of the first year, with what I normally see as winter seasonal FPS drop.

Are you sure you uploaded the right save?

[Hotaru]

That's... unexpected. It's the correct save, the dates modified confirm that.

I guess I must have screwed up and got excited over nothing. I changed the raws in the main DF raws folder only. I don't have experience with the winter slowdown, so I may very well have confused it with the caravan leaving - because they left as winter arrived, and when they were on the map FPS was markedly lower. Actually there wouldn't be any way to tell them apart other than wait untir winter has passed, which I of course didn't.

Sorry for wasting your time.

[NW_Kohaku]

That's... unexpected. It's the correct save, the dates modified confirm that.

I guess I must have screwed up and got excited over nothing. I changed the raws in the main DF raws folder only. I don't have experience with the winter slowdown, so I may very well have confused it with the caravan leaving - because they left as winter arrived, and when they were on the map FPS was markedly lower. Actually there wouldn't be any way to tell them apart other than wait untir winter has passed, which I of course didn't.

Sorry for wasting your time.

As the saying goes, mistakes don't become errors until you refuse to learn from them.

Savegames have their own raws - this is a feature so that people who mod their games can upload saves where the effects of their mods can take place (because if a savegame requires something from a mod, and the raws aren't there for that item, the game will explode).  Go into the save folder, and you will see a raw folder, objects folder, and then the raws for that particular save. 

Your standard directory raws are only used for the creation of a new game or if you select it in the arena. 

This is also why it's important to have several years' worth of data - a yearly set of backup autosaves will give you a bunch of data points at exactly the same time of year for comparison.  That will smooth over seasonal FPS changes because you are always measuring from the 1st of Granite.

Again, for the sorts of things we are targeting as a source of FPS drop, I believe a more accurate gauge of FPS decline would actually be in your Task Manager's display of how much memory the game is actually consuming.  The more objects in the game's memory, the more memory used, the more memory the game has to go over when iterating items. 

When I start out with the fork save, I have around 350 megs of memory dedicated to DF.  When I have a million objects in the game, even if they are nothing but puddles of melted stone, I am using 600 megs of memory.  If that memory is not cleaned up, then even when the million objects are gone, you should still be using up over 350 megs of memory.  It's not a clear result until you can push that number to something unambiguously larger than normal, like 400 megs of memory with the same number of objects, or else a much larger save file than normal.

EDIT:
Also, be aware that changing trade capacity has no effect on the first year you do it - the size of the caravan is apparently set at the start of the year, or else when the last caravan is resolved.

[bombzero]

caverns could be screwing up your results more than a bit.

spiders make webs, webs are objects.

plants grow, plants are objects.

trees grow, trees are objects.

[NW_Kohaku]

caverns could be screwing up your results more than a bit.

spiders make webs, webs are objects.

plants grow, plants are objects.

trees grow, trees are objects.

I ran several of my tests for 10 years, so those trees should be growing at an even pace over all those years, and the FPS difference between them all is negligible, because my results were that the FPS drop (and amount of memory consumed by the game) were negligible. 

Boulder Experiment contains ten years of data, with all ten years included.

[Kogut]

caverns could be screwing up your results more than a bit.

spiders make webs, webs are objects.

plants grow, plants are objects.

trees grow, trees are objects.

I disabled caverns in my test.

[NW_Kohaku]

OK, I'm starting to pick up some trackable result - large caravans are producing a larger "unit-1.dat" file. 

I'm going to have to change some of my stuff, because I need teststone to have an actual value in order to make producing it bring in larger caravans.

Before, I had caravans with 500,000 excess trade capacity.

Initial fork save has 13 kb "unit-1.dat" files, while trading away some of my junk to it gave me 72 kb for the first year, but I wasn't really trying to do much besides test some things out.

Next trading cycle, I have 10,000 goblets ready to go.

After this, I want to test the effects of improved goblets.

Then I want to test mass sock manufacture, and possibly mass improved sock manufacture.  Then I'll try temperature tests again.

[arphen]

i highly appreciate your work.

[Cellmonk]

This is going somewhere. Once your done with this cycle, I'll try to replicate the results using a game with most other factors modded out. Such as caverns, liquids, rock types, invaders, plants (yep, there won't even be any plants), and animals (I'll leave yaks or something, but make them biome specific or not appear in the wild at all), and worn clothing and armor. I'll also gen a world with no vampires or any sort of sentient creature besides dwarves (who I will make year round caravans). Then I will play with capacity.

I might want to consider making the dwarves capable of only creating gears or something, so that the caravan only brings one type of stuff.

Now, I should test the end product by putting max fps at 4 or something, then recording the cpu usage when I tell a certain number (I could set migrants to zero so that both tests will start and end with the same number of dwarves) of dwarves to restockpile the specific item type that was mass destroyed. both should end with the same number of that item (aprox) in existance (except for control 2, which will have that same number reachable by dwarves, the rest walled away.)

I should probably turn trances off too.

ok. so 5 tests.
control 1 (nothing created),
control 2 (certain amount created through manager but not sold to caravan, instead walled in somewhere),
Caravan destruction (control 2, but sold to caravan),
Bridge destruction (control 2, but destroyed under bridge),
fire destruction (control 2, but dropped into magma sea).

am i missing anything?

Of course, the number of items created will be in the course of three thousand (ill make them weigh 0 or something so i will be sure to fit them on the caravan). Idk if that is enough. thats 100 manager designations I'll need to do, but that can be done pre divergence. In fact, all the creation can be done pre-divergence. Unless i need to upgrade to 30,000 or something

I wonder If I can make a reaction that creats 30,000 identical mugs.. that would make this a lot simpler.

[NW_Kohaku]

SWEET JEBUS we need to have a better management system for trading.

I just set a macro for pushing 10,000 goblets to the trade depot, and it took A FULL HOUR TO COMPLETE.  I can run a full year in the time it takes just to select the damn crap I'm trading.  And that's just to push it onto the trade depot, I still have to give it all away.

I'm writing a new suggestion post/thread after this.


Only managed to get around 4600 mugs onto the Trade Depot before the traders left.  That limitation on not sending objects to the trade depot until you are ready to trade continues to raise my ire.


Also, I managed to get my broker to legendary appraiser in one trade... heh.

[NW_Kohaku]

I wonder If I can make a reaction that creats 30,000 identical mugs.. that would make this a lot simpler.

They won't be identical in that they all roll for quality separately, and there's a sanity check on the number of items you can create, but I can create 10,000 mugs at once, but not 100,000 mugs.