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Author Topic: Climate Change  (Read 2864 times)

PTTG??

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Climate Change
« on: March 13, 2012, 12:54:23 pm »

It is a foregone conclusion that due to a historic level of corruption, ignorance, and blatant disregard for the future, changes will not be made to forestall global climate change for some time. Even if such actions were taken immediately, they would be too late to avoid- at last estimate- two degrees of warming over the surface of the planet, a very serious amount.

As such, we have no choice but to plan for an uncertain future of global shifting. Perhaps uniquely, we can predict at least the forces that will shape the world, if not the ultimate results.

Over the next hundred years, the temperature is expected to change at least two degrees C on average- and while most projections put it at 5 or 6 degrees, some go even higher. The short term projections say that those first two degrees could appear over the next few decades.

Most of North America, all of Africa, Europe, northern and central Asia, and most of Central and South America are likely to warm more than the global average. Projections suggest that the warming will be close to the global average in south Asia, Australia and New Zealand, and southern South America. The far North Atlantic, and the southern ocean that surrounds Antarctica, will increase the least.

Places that already see high precipitation will see more, and more intense storms. Summers will be dryer everywhere, but average annual precipitation will increase in northern Europe, the Arctic, Canada, the northeastern United States, tropical and eastern Africa, the northern Pacific, and Antarctica, as well as northern Asia and the Tibetan Plateau in winter.

There will also be an increase in snowfall in Greenland and Antarctica, which will lock away some freshwater. Perhaps this will partially counteract the loss of some coastal ice selves.

Rainfall will decrease in the Mediterranean, northern Africa, northern Sahara, Central America, the American Southwest, the southern Andes, as well as southwestern Australia during winter. There may also be significant drying in India and Brazil.

With the decrease in rainfall will be a failure of crops in some of the most densely populated parts of the globe. This will be the subject of further discussion shortly.

The amount of sea level increase is more difficult to predict. It is known that it will increase, likely by about as half a meter, or perhaps more, over the next century. Though this will be troubling for some low-lying nations, it won't be as widespread a problem as it could potentially be. Ice-Free arctic summers are very likely in the short term, but will not have any effect on sea levels as the ice was already floating. The Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets account for a great deal of water, enough to cause multiple meters of sea level increase each, but are very likely to remain frozen for the foreseeable future.

The ocean will experience severe acidification from dissolved CO2. This is quite certain given the geologic timescales of ocean chemistry- at this point there's nothing short of geoengineering that could stop it. If Carbon Dioxide production rates continue to 2100, the ocean could by then have become more acidic than it has been in the past 100,000 years. The immediately obvious effect of this would be that shell-forming creatures would be unable to collect calcium, but it will undoubtedly cause breakdowns throughout the food chain.

When coupled with overfishing, a failure of more or less every fishing region in the world is inevitable, and soon. If people do not stop fishing now, then they will be forced to soon when fisheries are simply tapped out.

It is certain that the next few decades will be firstly dominated by hunger as productive farming regions go dry and essential fisheries die out. Places that rely on groundwater may last longer than others, but will face the same pressures within a few years. The places most likely to remain or become effective farming areas are in the high northern latitudes- western Canada, possibly parts of Russia and northern Europe. Southeast Asia will have drastically increased rainfall, perhaps so much so that it is impossible to farm effectively there.

Due to increased hunger, and secondary problems such as disease and crime, social unrest will increase, perhaps drastically. Food prices as a function of the average wage seem to very strongly correlate to civil breakdown. At some point in the next several decades, we will see many more nations facing social disorder, quite possibly in relatively stable seeming, "western" countries in southern Europe. West Central Africa will most certainly break down entirely. Given the already significant strife in the region and the upcoming drying and lack of effective fishing, it would be utterly inhumane to allow someone to live there.

Agriculture uses 70% of freshwater used currently. It is safe to assume that this will be a place where some kind of technological revolution takes place. One likely way of decreasing that demand is a shift away from crops such as wheat and especially rice, to either hardier local plants or GMO forms.

Solar energy may become very powerful, specifically in areas that are or become more dry. Southern Europe will be particularly suited, being high-density population areas with dry weather. That said, panels farther south in North Africa, although farther and more susceptible to civil unrest, may be drastically more efficient than the northern ones.

Given that oil will become drastically more expensive in the next few decades, coal will grow in importance. Hopefully people will understand the effects of coal and some kind of mitigation technology will be used. Also likely to become more widespread is natural gas as a fuel source. The extraction has some side effects which it has in common with other mines. The difference being, rather than poor people in other countries that need to deal with them, it's middle-class people in the US.

Disease is likely to become more common. Lower-quality food, dense population, limited medical supplies, little water, and social disorder will lead to the selection for virulent diseases in the nations hardest-hit by drought, which will spread with aid workers and refugees. Industrial farming methods, however, will introduce resistance to treatment. The worst case scenario is a drug-resistant disease appearing briefly in the west, festering in central Africa, India, or Brazil, and bursting out again perhaps years later as a more deadly and virulent mutation.

That is what I suspect will happen, at any rate.

My question to you is, what do we do to survive and thrive in a world shaped by decreasing access to food and water and increasing prices, temperature, and sea level?
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Levi

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 12:56:08 pm »

The ocean will experience severe acidification from dissolved CO2. This is quite certain given the geologic timescales of ocean chemistry- at this point there's nothing short of geoengineering that could stop it. If Carbon Dioxide production rates continue to 2100, the ocean could by then have become more acidic than it has been in the past 100,000 years. The immediately obvious effect of this would be that shell-forming creatures would be unable to collect calcium, but it will undoubtedly cause breakdowns throughout the food chain.

This one scares me the most to be honest.

My question to you is, what do we do to survive and thrive in a world shaped by decreasing access to food and water and increasing prices, temperature, and sea level?

I'm going to use my solution to everything food related and put out vertical farms as a possible solution.  Uses less water, can be built anywhere and is pest-resistant.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 12:59:24 pm by Levi »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 01:36:04 pm »

Meh, too much damage has been done, apparently no one cares, we're all screwed as is. Steve's set the death clock for 2210, we're all doomed. At least the UK will be relatively untouched...

...Until flood the everything :(

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 01:43:12 pm »

Actually you guys might get a longer growing season and circulation change could modulate your weather so it's actually nicer.

Also, if the north pole melts, you guys even get a good shot at controlling the north sea oil.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 01:48:38 pm »

The thing is, I hate the weather in the UK now. It used to be bitter, cold and snowy. I like bitter, cold and snowy. The channels and rivers were frozen to the point where you could make shortcuts over them :(

Now...

None of that. And it rarely snows.

And better weather for potatoes? Not worth the rest of the world asploding D:

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 01:52:42 pm »

Well, if the pole does melt, the gulf stream stops and you guys get colder, slightly dryer weather.
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Frumple

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 01:53:28 pm »

Wasn't the UK projected to basically ice over when the atlantic currents shift around? Was several years back when I heard that, so it's probably changed but hey.

Anyway, I'm basically in the "Hope to hell it hits the fan after I die" crowd. I'm pretty much completely convinced I'm not going to be able to make meaningful short-term impact (Though I do try to do better than my fellow Americans, where and when I can) and that any long-term impact is, well, long term (and probably going to be too little, too late.). Aiming for that, but I doubt I'll manage anything notable in the grand scheme of things.

So I'm hoping I'm dead before it all goes to hell. Barring that, suicide before starvation or slaughter. Still, I figure I won't live 'till 80 so it's only got to hold off a bit more than 50 years. I'm hopeful the current inertia will keep my area stable until then :-\

But yeah, barring either something incredible coming out of the scientific fields or the bastards up top finally getting bit by the Let's-not-be-the-cause-of-our-species'-extinction bug, we're pretty much screwed. At the very least, we're going to lose a significant amount of our population and the societal aftershocks from that is going to frak everything right the bugger up. But hey, folks have been saying this for a few decades now, haha. At least we'll be able to point at everyone else and say, "I frakking told you so, you ignorant bastards." It's a cold solace, but I'll take what I can get.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 02:06:17 pm »

@PTTG?: It'd be great if you could provide sources used for your narrative.

the gulf stream stops
He responded that this was “absolutely not” the case, stating that “you can’t turn the Gulf Stream off as long as the wind blows over the North Atlantic and the earth continues to rotate!” and went on to describe the ‘conveyor’ as “a kind of fairy-tale for grownups”. Professor Wunsch said that “I’m willing to talk about these things. I believe that there are all kinds of things happening in the oceans, many highly troubling, but I also believe that one should distinguish what the science tells us and what is merely fantasy”.
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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 02:13:07 pm »

Hopefully I'll be living on a completely self-sufficient farm in the North Canadian wilderness by then.
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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 02:19:21 pm »

I really don't care particularly about 'global warming', I see it as a distraction from every other important environmental issue.

Should we cut back on fossil fuels? Sure since it's a finite supply that WILL run out. Not to mention all the other pollutants, like radioactive dust from coal plants. Reducing energy use saves money as well, power is expensive, so it's good to cut down anyway. And I don't like breathing toxic fumes, so non-gas releasing power generation is good as well.

I look at 'carbon credits' as just another scam to make brokers and traders rich while doing nothing to actually solve an real problems.

Do I care if people with oceanfront property get flooded out? not really, shoulda built on higher ground.

Icecaps melting vs. increased snowfall, where will the balance be?

Trees absorb more and grow faster when there is more CO2 in the air, sounds like nature has coping mechanisms.

In the end, I don't see climate change as the WORST THING EVER OMG PANIC. People religiously freaking out over it is just ridiculous to me.
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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 02:42:12 pm »

Oh calm down, Plazzo. I was just about to tell Frumple that we aren't talking about the end of the world here, just a pretty significant change. It's not that the gulf stream would literally stop, but it would be reasonable to say that it would have a different impact on British weather.

I'm looking at Fusion in the next fifty years being the big saving grace. I know it's always twenty years away, but now there's definitely numbers on it's side. They've been getting better efficiency every year, faster, in fact, than Moore's Law. They say it's only a decade from being self-sustaining at this rate, which is why I'm comfortable saying a half-century. Still be 20 years after theoretical demonstration and practical use, of course.

Back to Frumple's hysterics: Well, it'll be bad, but honestly I don't think it will be that bad. Certainly it's something that one could thrive through with good preparation.

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Icecaps melting vs. increased snowfall, where will the balance be?
Well, the increased snowfall will be minor compared to increased melting.


Quote
Trees absorb more and grow faster when there is more CO2 in the air, sounds like nature has coping mechanisms.
CO2 stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years, normally. Trees may grow slightly faster, but it is not compensating now and won't help much over any significant timescale either.
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G-Flex

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 02:47:28 pm »

Trees absorb more and grow faster when there is more CO2 in the air, sounds like nature has coping mechanisms.

CO2 isn't the only greenhouse gas, and nature's "coping mechanisms" are far from perfect. It really doesn't take that high a rise in average global temperature in order for something as severe as a mass extinction event to take place.
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Frumple

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 02:52:41 pm »

Nah, not hysterical, just resigned. If the stuff you projected comes through P, we are looking at a pretty significant population drop (food/water scarcity and disease, primarily), which is going to do no favors for anyone.

I don't really think we'll see an immediate extinction event or anything silly like that, but I don't see a situation coming where most people (especially compared to now, which is already fairly unpleasant for a lot of folks) will be able to thrive. Some (probably even many, really) individuals, certainly, but the aggregate effect looks unpleasant.

But I'm not terribly concern about personal survival, which is probably the key. A notable downturn (for humans) in environmental conditions doesn't bode terribly well for people in general, and that puts me in a considerably worse mood (so to speak) than the potential for personal-level destabilization.
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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 05:10:55 pm »

Most of North America, all of Africa, Europe, northern and central Asia, and most of Central and South America are likely to warm more than the global average. Projections suggest that the warming will be close to the global average in south Asia, Australia and New Zealand, and southern South America. The far North Atlantic, and the southern ocean that surrounds Antarctica, will increase the least.

What's your source for that? Everything I've read says the poles are warming more than everything else.
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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 05:21:46 pm »

GEOENGINEERING HO.
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