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[Jingles]

I... oh, yeah, to organize it better would be
z1
z0, sorry. Dwarf fortress I kinda work into 'negatives' for floors by default. XD

But uh, would that work, for Wagons, is my question.

Yup, just be sure not to but magma behind the wall because what happens is part of the wagon ends up in the wall for a second or two before it changes level, meaning the animals will get lit on fire.  It basically counts the wagon as where the middle is.

[Flying Dice]

... that ramp... isn't against a solid wall? wah?

I think he just misunderstood the diagram-- I did too, at first.  Yes, that ramp will work.

Yeah, I derped. That'll work fine.

[slink]

At first I used 3x3 up-down staircases.  Then I got the idea (in 40d) that people were falling down them because I found dead bodies at the bottom.  Whether they were actually being killed by the fall or being killed by something else and then falling, I never did find out.  I suspect the latter. 

So I began making spiral staircases, with up and down staircases in pairs alternating around a conceptual middle point.  This was a pain to designate. 

Then I got the ramp bug and started building spiral rampways, 3-wide.  Some had solid cores and some had open wells in the center. 

Enter 31.x, and then 34.x, and I am back to central up-down staircases.  I use a 5x5 to bore straight down to the magma layer, or at least as straight as I can.  If I can go perfectly straight with only a little patching of the walls, I do that.  Otherwise there may be a horizontal jog in the path to the forges.  I find this preferable to pumping magma up 50 or more levels.  My fortresses now are much more vertical, with only a horizontal spread towards running water, soil, and the depot.  Water gets piped in.  Soil, well soil is where it is, for farming.  The depot is in a trapped squiggle of corridors with drawbridges to isolate it from the outside and from the fortress, in whatever combination may be necessary.  Sadly, I have not yet mastered making murder holes.  The last time I tried to retrofit a drowning capability onto my depot area, the dragon trapped within ran RIGHT UP the ramp that appeared when I "channeled".  *sigh*

[uncool]

My personal strategy for a while has been the following:

I like having a central staircase (as in actual stairs) throughout my entire fortress to the main dwarf room. Winding through that I have the caravan structure, as follows:

Even-numbered levels:

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WDDD........UUUW
WDDD........UUUW
WDDD........UUUW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
.......XX.......
.......XX.......
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WUUU........DDDW
WUUU........DDDW
WUUU........DDDW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Odd levels:

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WUUUWWWWWWWWDDDW
WUUUWWWWWWWWDDDW
WUUUWWWWWWWWDDDW
W...WWWWWWWW...W
W...WWWWWWWW...W
W...WWWWWWWW...W
W...WWWXXWWW...W
W...WWWXXWWW...W
W...WWWWWWWW...W
W...WWWWWWWW...W
W...WWWWWWWW...W
WDDDWWWWWWWWUUUW
WDDDWWWWWWWWUUUW
WDDDWWWWWWWWUUUW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

X is staircase, U is up ramp, D is down ramp, W is wall, . is floor. The wall to the wagon area can be removed to put in a depot. I also sometimes remove the wall between staircase and wagon area to put in a bridge for easier depot access. This is the reason why I only connect stuff on even-numbered levels; I like having a hole that goes all the way down, so connecting things on odd-numbered levels creates a problem.

I recently discovered that I don't need to mine out the entire 3x3 corner square, which allows me to mine less, but makes constructing it in caverns a bit more annoying.

I'm considering making a better staircase, because this one takes too long to go all the way down. The idea is to use a ramp to go down one level every square except for the corners (and centers where the staircase connects).
=Uncool-

[rtg593]

My main entry is a long series of 3x1 ramps down to the death hall leading to the depot.

2 designs, for my next 2 forts:

1: built a diagonal fort, instead of a main hall horizontal, or main stairs vertical, it's a 3x1 ramp dropping from one side of the embark to the other, with a hallway shooting off each side all the way down.  :p

2: double helix spiral ramp. Just cuz.

The first one is the more interesting one

[Johuotar]

Tried to use ramps in last fort. 2 dwarves died of dehydration. Ill stick with safe stairs for now.

[Gunnarr]

I just do
x-up/down stair
O=ground

OOOOOOOO
OXOXXOXO
OOOOOOOO

i just do this for a few z levels, make a corridor going some way on the x/y  and then go further down on the z level with that pattern and then later do the previous step again. I just do this so I can block off things if I dig too deep or something. It probably isn't very efficient, but it's just how I do things. I've only used ramps so far for the fortress entrance hallway, to have the caravan able to go down a few levels.

[Kibstable]

Tried to use ramps in last fort. 2 dwarves died of dehydration. Ill stick with safe stairs for now.

Yeah, thats been my experience twice now. I like the ramps idea, but invariably my only 2 picks end up at the bottom of the ramp with 2 dead miners and everyone else says 'I cant reach that pick!'

Maybe theres a layout trick I'm missing...
Do you guys build safety stairs down to the bottom of your ramps by any chance ?

[zilpin]

Stairs are always in workshop stacks.  Workshop in middle has the only door, rooms are 5x5, stair in front of door, 3 rooms above and below for storage.

For my main fort, I found the most efficient corridor layout, but it kills FPS.
Diagonal main hallways, a giant X, 3 wide.  Ramps connecting each partial X with those above/below, then hatches over the ramps.  Placing ramps carefully lets dwarfs get from the top-outside to most of the fortress in the same number of minimal steps.  It takes clever planning to keep the ramps functional (must watch out for accidental wall removal).

But the pathfinder soaks up CPU to use it.
The Dwarfs always take shorter trips than spiral ramps or straight stairs, but FPS death happens after a few burrows.

Lately, been sticking to a few careful ramps at main entrance, and easily designated central stairwells elsewhere.

[slink]

Tried to use ramps in last fort. 2 dwarves died of dehydration. Ill stick with safe stairs for now.

Yeah, thats been my experience twice now. I like the ramps idea, but invariably my only 2 picks end up at the bottom of the ramp with 2 dead miners and everyone else says 'I cant reach that pick!'

Maybe theres a layout trick I'm missing...
Do you guys build safety stairs down to the bottom of your ramps by any chance ?

Thank of a ramp as conceptually a board leaning against a wall.  Without a wall to lean against, the board just lays on the ground and you can't go up it.  Also, you have to be able to step off the board at the top.  Leaning a board against a two-story wall won't let you get off one story up.

Does that help?   

[nightwhips]

I... oh, yeah, to organize it better would be
z1
z0, sorry. Dwarf fortress I kinda work into 'negatives' for floors by default. XD

But uh, would that work, for Wagons, is my question.

Yup, just be sure not to but magma behind the wall because what happens is part of the wagon ends up in the wall for a second or two before it changes level, meaning the animals will get lit on fire.  It basically counts the wagon as where the middle is.

HOOOOLD up a minute. This will be EXTREMELY useful for elf caravans.

[terkiey]

I usually have a cross of Up/down stairs because it is the same as a 3x3 staircase but allows for easy planning of rooms around the cross. It also looks better than a 3x3 block.

Code: [Select]

Like so:
  X
  X
XXXXX
  X
  X
On the topic of the staircases not actually being grand, I don't really mind, dorfy stuff is less grand and instead more insanely huge for no reason.

[Sus]

Double helix ramps sound like Awesome^2.
I think I'll try a "central double helix ramp up and down from the depot level" design next...

[Nil Eyeglazed]

I... oh, yeah, to organize it better would be
z1
z0, sorry. Dwarf fortress I kinda work into 'negatives' for floors by default. XD

But uh, would that work, for Wagons, is my question.

Yup, just be sure not to but magma behind the wall because what happens is part of the wagon ends up in the wall for a second or two before it changes level, meaning the animals will get lit on fire.  It basically counts the wagon as where the middle is.

HOOOOLD up a minute. This will be EXTREMELY useful for elf caravans.

Good thought.  I was just wondering whether a wagon could be cage trapped, if you knocked it unconscious first.

[Zsword]

I... oh, yeah, to organize it better would be
z1
z0, sorry. Dwarf fortress I kinda work into 'negatives' for floors by default. XD

But uh, would that work, for Wagons, is my question.

Yup, just be sure not to but magma behind the wall because what happens is part of the wagon ends up in the wall for a second or two before it changes level, meaning the animals will get lit on fire.  It basically counts the wagon as where the middle is.

HOOOOLD up a minute. This will be EXTREMELY useful for elf caravans.

... Elves bring Wagons?