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[Vherid]

Well the muscle is really tendons right? And do fingers build up fat?

My father used to milk cows by hand when he was younger so his fingers are huge (basically sausages)

So I'd assume that to be muscle growth (or thicken tendons/ fat?)

That's why I put muscle in.

So that was my own thoughts on adding muscle in, but we are going for realism.

Fingers don't have muscles, they are controlled by muscles in the palm/forearm and are activated via long tendons. I'm not sure about fat, and I don't know if tendons can grow like that, but the only muscles that are in fingers are hair follecule muscles which really don't count, because they're are very minuscule.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I guess finger skin can be thicker (padding)

[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:ARG4:25:ARG1:15] instead of 1

EDIT:
I only know so much of the human body ha, so I have no idea what would acually be proper

[Vherid]

I don't know, it's currently set at where San Diego has it, and he/she was the medical student so I assume he knows what's going on

[Lewpis]

Might want to fine tune your mod a little bit, just had my finger punched off in object testing

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

fingers need a thicker skin layer, since bone is more dominate. punches and that break through the skin, then completely shatter the bone, severing it.

[Courtesy Arloban]

It's because living bone is actually much tougher than dead bone, and dead bone is what most of the web references use for their data.

bone loses 10.7 % of its density after 120 days of death

At first both bones behave in a true elastic fashion with a linear deformation
as the load increases. Towards the point of failure, however, deformation of the dead tibia
increases rapidly, indicating that the elastic limit has been passed.

In addition to dead bone growing weaker, living bone grows stronger in the same time.

this is an experiment with dead bone in living bodies -   http://www.bjj.boneandjoint.org.uk/content/44-B/2/412.full.pdf+html

(Young modulus of bone in a living phase EI=17260 MPa, Young modulus in order to carry out a comparison analysis EII.=18600 MPa and Young modulus of bone in a dead phase EIII=20202 MPa)  http://www.journalamme.org/papers_vol26_2/26212.pdf

Making bone stronger(and with less pain receptors) would make creatures more sturdy, and that would make punches less likely to sever body parts.  This trend is reversed in antlers however, as dry antlers are actually stronger than green, but I don't see a potential use or a way to implement that in the game.

I would post a new bone template here, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to convert units to what's in the raws for example this "[SHEAR_YIELD:115000] used 'bone (limb)' from wikipedia tensile strength" is "104-121" on both the tensile strength page and the bone page.

I entered the data in Nights metal creator and got this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:WHITE]
   [STATE_NAME:SOLID:bone]
   [STATE_ADJ:SOLID:bone]
   [STATE_NAME:POWDER:bone meal]
   [STATE_ADJ:POWDER:bone meal]
   [STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:WHITE]
   [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:bone serum]
   [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:bone serum]
   [STATE_COLOR:GAS:WHITE]
   [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling bone serum]
   [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling bone serum]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SPEC_HEAT:1000]
   [IGNITE_POINT:10508]
   [MELTING_POINT:NONE]
   [BOILING_POINT:NONE]
   [ITEMS_BARRED]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:554]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:554]
   [MOLAR_MASS:0]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:-720653] 
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:-1441307]
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:22]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:-720653]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:-1441307]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:22]
   [TENSILE_YIELD:-205901]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5971]
   [TORSION_YIELD:-205901]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:11]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:-205901]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:11]
   [BENDING_YIELD:-205901]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5971]
   [MAX_EDGE:10000]

I don't think it will work with the negative numbers, have no idea how I got those unless Its a standard to metric/metric to standard thing.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Well sir, if you can make bone material more realistic. We could surly use it.

[Grimlocke]

Mostly finished on my end, safe for these: Armors can still use some work, particularly padded armor and how entity creatures use them (last one I saw was Great helm, mask, leather gambeson, and no limb armors... this is most likely a vanilla problem though).

I also dont have realistic material properties for the new metals. Right now I just had to guess at something that seemed to about right which is not realy what this mod was supposed to do.

[arkhometha]

Necroing this fine project to bring attention to some weird issue:
While I was modding body parts to melt so zombies become destructible again, I noted that wood, skin, bone, meat, and in fact almost any organic object would ignite at the same temperature: 10508ºU or 282ºC (IRL wood ignites at 249ºC, which is lower than the vanilla temperature but higher than the vanilla HEATDAM value of 10250ºU or 139ºC) and I'm fairly sure skin doesn't ignite at the same temperature as wood and that bones doesn't ignite at the same temperature as either.
I did some research and came up with some temperatures, but only worked on three melt/ignite models at this thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105871.msg3660356#msg3660356

Posting this here to see if we can get an update to this project and to try and fime some suggestion/data about ignite and melt temperatures of body parts, wood and organic materials.

EDIT: Also, does Hugo's work or this mod add joints for humanoids?

[Ari Lazarus]

Mine does <3

[sayke]

besides melting points and joints, i would suggest bringing in some of the excellent work done to fix archery and crossbows:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115448.0

i also noticed that when playing masterworkDF, which uses this mod, there were some really weird jointlocks being applied... hooves and wings being used to grab and whatnot. it wasn't completely insane, but definitely weird...

[arkhometha]

Mine does <3

I'm aware of that, and was actually going to suggest it to be included if it didn't have joint implemented yet (and if have, I would suggest including your body parts nomenclature. I like them.)

I coudn't find nothing about bones (and skin and meat) ignite and melting (and I don't expect data about melting and ignite points to be easy, or existent at all) points in Gray's Anatomy 39 Edition (as expected, really). I will try to find some reliable data about this.

besides melting points and joints, i would suggest bringing in some of the excellent work done to fix archery and crossbows:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115448.0

i also noticed that when playing masterworkDF, which uses this mod, there were some really weird jointlocks being applied... hooves and wings being used to grab and whatnot. it wasn't completely insane, but definitely weird...

Also, adding a request to include the Broken Arrow Mod too. The recent research on railguns arrows and bows ad the tweaks could be used, and I would recommend integrating the changes to lashes present in the Modest Mod(although they need a look, IMHO, since lashes can still break skulls and lashes are completly usesless again clothes(they should be useless agains't armor, not clothes)), if they aren't already corrected by Vherid Mod.

EDIT: Stumbled in some problem. While finding data about wood is easy, I don't think the game takes into consideration the differences between ignite temperature (i.e. wood exposed to fire) and the Autoignition Temperature - or the minimum temperature required to ignite in air without a spark or flame being present (for wood this is 482°C, apparently). Since the game only takes into account the ignite temperature, lowering the wood ignition value could mean they burst into flames in very hot temperatures without a spark, flame or magma.

EDIT2: According to this paper, heat damage on bone (charring) occurs at 300°C and it completly melts at 1600°C in a cremation chamber. Since in game this would be hotter than magma, and since magma is very different from a cremation chamber, it's safe to assume bones does not ignite and that it melts very close to the stone melting temperature in-game.

Data sources (will change frequently as more sources are found): A nice article with ignite and melting points of some matrials, including metals, wood and a paper.
THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY DATA FOR SPECIFIC TISSUES AND ORGANS FOR HUMANS AND OTHER MAMMALIAN SPECIES - Professor Kenneth R. Holmes
IGNITION OF WOOD - A REVIEW OF THE STATE OF THE ART - Vytenis Babrauskas, Ph.D.
The forensic evaluation of burned skeletal remains: A synthesis - Douglas H. Ubelaker - Useful for bone data.
Combustion Experiments with Flesh and Animal Fat - Okay, so now we have ignite and melting point for fat.
THE FLAMMABILITY OF SKIN AND HAIR IN OXYGEN-ENRICHED ATMOSPHERES - ROBERT L. DURFEE, Ph. D. - How I will take any data from this? It's the best source for skin and hair values.

[Vherid]

Well I did compile the new san diego realistic tissue update into the goreset and whatnot, however while trying to install arch-linux I accidentally formatted my C drive, so I lost all of that stuff I think. It's easy to put back together again, but yeah.

I "think" hugo added joints, I don't really remember. I'll have to look at it all again and see if I want to add Azi's stuff to this. I forgot about the broken arrow actually. I'll certainly have to put that in here as well.

Expect an update in a few days, at most. Might do this shit tonight.

[sayke]

vherid you rule!! =D

[Putnam]

It's because living bone is actually much tougher than dead bone, and dead bone is what most of the web references use for their data.

bone loses 10.7 % of its density after 120 days of death

At first both bones behave in a true elastic fashion with a linear deformation
as the load increases. Towards the point of failure, however, deformation of the dead tibia
increases rapidly, indicating that the elastic limit has been passed.

In addition to dead bone growing weaker, living bone grows stronger in the same time.

this is an experiment with dead bone in living bodies -   http://www.bjj.boneandjoint.org.uk/content/44-B/2/412.full.pdf+html

(Young modulus of bone in a living phase EI=17260 MPa, Young modulus in order to carry out a comparison analysis EII.=18600 MPa and Young modulus of bone in a dead phase EIII=20202 MPa)  http://www.journalamme.org/papers_vol26_2/26212.pdf

Making bone stronger(and with less pain receptors) would make creatures more sturdy, and that would make punches less likely to sever body parts.  This trend is reversed in antlers however, as dry antlers are actually stronger than green, but I don't see a potential use or a way to implement that in the game.

I would post a new bone template here, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to convert units to what's in the raws for example this "[SHEAR_YIELD:115000] used 'bone (limb)' from wikipedia tensile strength" is "104-121" on both the tensile strength page and the bone page.

I entered the data in Nights metal creator and got this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:WHITE]
   [STATE_NAME:SOLID:bone]
   [STATE_ADJ:SOLID:bone]
   [STATE_NAME:POWDER:bone meal]
   [STATE_ADJ:POWDER:bone meal]
   [STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:WHITE]
   [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:bone serum]
   [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:bone serum]
   [STATE_COLOR:GAS:WHITE]
   [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling bone serum]
   [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling bone serum]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SPEC_HEAT:1000]
   [IGNITE_POINT:10508]
   [MELTING_POINT:NONE]
   [BOILING_POINT:NONE]
   [ITEMS_BARRED]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:554]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:554]
   [MOLAR_MASS:0]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:-720653] 
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:-1441307]
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:22]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:-720653]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:-1441307]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:22]
   [TENSILE_YIELD:-205901]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5971]
   [TORSION_YIELD:-205901]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:11]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:-205901]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:11]
   [BENDING_YIELD:-205901]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:-411802]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5971]
   [MAX_EDGE:10000]

I don't think it will work with the negative numbers, have no idea how I got those unless Its a standard to metric/metric to standard thing.

I know I'm a bit late, but from that paper that you posted, I was able to get these values:

Code: [Select]

[IMPACT_YIELD:48825] 
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:97650]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:48825]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:97650]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[TENSILE_YIELD:13950]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:27900]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:6]
[TORSION_YIELD:13950]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:27900]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[SHEAR_YIELD:13950]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:27900]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[BENDING_YIELD:13950]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:27900]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:6]
(My PEMC based on NEMC uses GPa for conversion)