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[Grimlocke]

By obscure names I meant stuff like 'bec de corbin', 'bohemian earspoon (lol)' or the tons and tons of name-suffixes that come with prongs and hooks on polearms. Those names start to sound very silly with all the material, quality, etc strings attached.


And for the sword renaming: 'long sword' is a very ambiguous term which could refer to all manner of large, double edged swords. Bastard sword (as in crossbred, not 'you bastard!') is a sword made for both one and twohanded use. Found it appropriate as the DF stock longsword is used onehanded by humans, and twohanded by dwarves. Also called hand and a half sword.

Similarly 'scimitar' is a word describing any outwardly curved arab sword. Decided to replace it with the east-european saber (which was in turn derived from curved turkish swords) to better fit in with the rest of the weapons. Again, I could go crazy and make dozens of curved onehanded swords from all over the world, but as far as DF is concerned they all function pretty much the same.

Arming sword is a single handed sword of medium length, standard weapon for earlier medieval knights. Varied in length quite a bit; from 'shortsword' kind of length to cavalry sword length. Orriginally replaced shortsword with 'short arming sword' and added a 'long arming sword' for dwarves to have a bit more substantial onehanded sword but later decided to cut down on longer names.


Anyhow, (tl;dr version) the idea was to make the weapon set more history based and less D&D based. Seemed to fit with this project so I threw it in here.


Edit: enity file done. Packaged it with the weapon file for convenience: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5896

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Haven't had much time for modding the toes (yes i know they are simple but RL is not )

[Vattic]

You might want to alter the COVERAGE of the various types of armour. You could even add more types of armour like chain coifs and coats. More shields could also be interesting if you can make them unique enough.

As for butchery I suggest you do similar to Lofn's Wanderer's Friend mod and have more leather like materials. In my own custom implementation of the same idea I have fur, scale, and carapace alongside leather.

[bombzero]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By obscure names I meant stuff like 'bec de corbin', 'bohemian earspoon (lol)' or the tons and tons of name-suffixes that come with prongs and hooks on polearms. Those names start to sound very silly with all the material, quality, etc strings attached.


And for the sword renaming: 'long sword' is a very ambiguous term which could refer to all manner of large, double edged swords. Bastard sword (as in crossbred, not 'you bastard!') is a sword made for both one and twohanded use. Found it appropriate as the DF stock longsword is used onehanded by humans, and twohanded by dwarves. Also called hand and a half sword.

Similarly 'scimitar' is a word describing any outwardly curved arab sword. Decided to replace it with the east-european saber (which was in turn derived from curved turkish swords) to better fit in with the rest of the weapons. Again, I could go crazy and make dozens of curved onehanded swords from all over the world, but as far as DF is concerned they all function pretty much the same.

Arming sword is a single handed sword of medium length, standard weapon for earlier medieval knights. Varied in length quite a bit; from 'shortsword' kind of length to cavalry sword length. Orriginally replaced shortsword with 'short arming sword' and added a 'long arming sword' for dwarves to have a bit more substantial onehanded sword but later decided to cut down on longer names.


Anyhow, (tl;dr version) the idea was to make the weapon set more history based and less D&D based. Seemed to fit with this project so I threw it in here.


Edit: enity file done. Packaged it with the weapon file for convenience: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5896

so no Bardiches, Voulges, or the like instead of just halberds? ah well i suppose sometimes medieval weapon nuts must yield to normal peoples wishes 

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

IM ok with extra weapons, Just as long as they have colorful / realistic attacks nots just "stab, slash, hack, etc"

EDIT:
Maybe some some weapons could have a SUPER attack, say a Two hander has a deadly slash attack but a short sword has a more effective stab attack. 2 hander has an advantage over unarmored/lightly armored foes, where a short sword might be able to pierce armor better. Weapon/Armor/Historical experts will know whats best

EDIT2:
Vattic is right coverage and some things like boots and gloves need alterations (cover fingers and toes)
as for coverage, a breastplate should only be 75% and chain mail 60%?? maybe even leather armor. Also make it so you can have a nice set of layers (Leather then mail, then breastplate, then cloak for max coverage)

[dennislp3]

Breastplate is chest only.

Mail would be just the chest only (sleeveless mail shirt), chest and arms (Haubergeon or "little mail") or chest arm and upper leg (Hauberk or "Full mail").

The game actually already renders the armor coverage fairly well...the only tweaking needed would be the amount of coverage offered by mail if you dont like it as is. You could make 3 types of chain armor for instance and each one uses one more bar than the last.

As for Leather that can cover everything (arms, upper leg, chest, and neck) down to once again chest only.

So rather than tweaking current coverage the only added realism would come from different levels of the armor and the material usage involved.

breastplate would stay the same (maybe go to the extent of adding a variant with a neckguard and upper leg guard? Including arm armor for a breastplate defeats its design and purpose which is armor for vital organs without restricting movement)

mail and leather would both get 3 variations of chest only, Chest and upper arm (or full arm), and chest/full arms/upper legs.
Mail: Mail Shirt, Haubergeon, hauberk
Leather: Leather Shirt, Leather Armor, Full Leather Armor?

anyways that's my 2 cents

[Black_Legion]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By obscure names I meant stuff like 'bec de corbin', 'bohemian earspoon (lol)' or the tons and tons of name-suffixes that come with prongs and hooks on polearms. Those names start to sound very silly with all the material, quality, etc strings attached.


And for the sword renaming: 'long sword' is a very ambiguous term which could refer to all manner of large, double edged swords. Bastard sword (as in crossbred, not 'you bastard!') is a sword made for both one and twohanded use. Found it appropriate as the DF stock longsword is used onehanded by humans, and twohanded by dwarves. Also called hand and a half sword.

Similarly 'scimitar' is a word describing any outwardly curved arab sword. Decided to replace it with the east-european saber (which was in turn derived from curved turkish swords) to better fit in with the rest of the weapons. Again, I could go crazy and make dozens of curved onehanded swords from all over the world, but as far as DF is concerned they all function pretty much the same.

Arming sword is a single handed sword of medium length, standard weapon for earlier medieval knights. Varied in length quite a bit; from 'shortsword' kind of length to cavalry sword length. Orriginally replaced shortsword with 'short arming sword' and added a 'long arming sword' for dwarves to have a bit more substantial onehanded sword but later decided to cut down on longer names.


Anyhow, (tl;dr version) the idea was to make the weapon set more history based and less D&D based. Seemed to fit with this project so I threw it in here.


Edit: enity file done. Packaged it with the weapon file for convenience: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5896

I think DF is set in the 14th technology wise so a spatha would me more appropriate for the time period. Most of the community would call this a "Broadsword", essentially a Large gladius type weapon used by heavy infantry. The gladius became a light infantry weapon after its introduction. The spatha became the Viking or Celtic sword that eventually evolved into the knightly or arming sword. Even though a broadsword may specifically relate to the basket-hilted swords of the 16th century many in the community may see broadsword and get a better inclination to the weapon rather than arming sword. Especially with its prevalence in RPGs of all kinds.

Mechanics wise it's a one handed sword with a wider blade used for stabbing and slashing, again a gladius with a longer blade. It seems to be .75 m to 1.0 m long depending on ifit was a Calvary weon or not. This is also called a Viking sword in some cases so this may fit dwarves well

Tldr -> arming sword may not make much sense to most at a glance but broadsword may work better. Especially since they are the same weapon mechanically...  disregarding a finer point that is.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Hmm.. I think we should keep weapons/armor/ the like all seperate downloads
by this I mean
Realism Complete: Tissues, Body, ABS, Weapons, Armor, Attacks, etc..
Realism Body: Tissues, Body, ABS
Realism Weapons and Armor: (name says it all)

Just so that this can be added in by end users easier. Incase Someone downloaded genisis (sorry deon for any incorrect spelling) and wanted just the Realism Body (might have to make a capatiable version since deon has a more complete... human body)

Because I feel we are getting from "Simple realism of vanilla DF" to "Overhaul Mod" Now not that is bad. But we should also try and keep a "Vanilla upgrade" version.

Also will try and finish up toes 2morrow if RL has mercy

[Grimlocke]

@Bombzero: Bardiches and voulges are in there actualy they are different enough in shape to make a difference in game. Bardiches have a much larger slash/hack contact area, and somewhat lower stab contact area. Polearms were a bit of a seperate case since the game didnt have many two-handed weapons to begin with there was a lot of space to fill there.

@Hugo the Dwarf: Shorter swords were made to have a lower stabbing contact area and are thus more effective at piercing armor. Wouldnt help them against unarmoured targets though. May give them some additional attack velocity. Same mechanic was added for the onehanded spears: bear spear with a large contact area, awl pikes with very small contact area (has a skewer-like spearpoint) regular spears are in between. Tested this in arena with 60 vs 60 matches where it worked amazingly well: awl pikes miserably lost the unarmoured combat round but hardly lost any men during armoured combat.

@Black Legion: The spatha, gladius, pilum, hasta, etc. are all iron age swords which is well before the 12th to 14th century period I aimed to take the weapons from. Viking sword still had a very similar shape as the spatha (broad slashing blades with wide, long fullers and a rounded tip), but went out of use during the 11th century. These developed into the arming sword I used, which had a had a narrower blade, shorter fuller, tapered more strongly and had a more prominent stabbing point. All in order to deal with the increasing use of chainmail at the time. Further along the line the twohanded and hand and a half swords appear (parallel blade edges and a less prominent stabbing point, longer grip) often refered to as 'longsword', as well a much shorter arming sword worn as sidearm.
The reason I didnt use 'broadsword' is because this is defined as a blade mostly intended for slashing, while what I had in mind for the smaller two swords was a strong, armor piercing stab attack. (something I actualy forgot to put in the raws, oops. Will make a revised version soon)

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

^ I'll take your word for it, Also anyway for dual weapons? (two-handed weapon?) I have some made up but they might need to be balanced. They also are buggy as only fortress AI respects that fact they can only use two hands to wield it. But combat reports have some added depth (I also shamlessly doubled the attack stats just to losing that shield gives you an extra boost)

[dennislp3]

dual wielding weapons is in no way shape or form a historically accurate or viable fighting tactic...it would not be realistic at all.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

dual wielding weapons is in no way shape or form a historically accurate or viable fighting tactic...it would not be realistic at all.

I guess back then yes. Alright no dual weapons

[Grimlocke]

@Hugo: Couldnt find anything sensible to add in terms of twohanded swords myself, safe for the claymore. Decided to leave that out due to it being a specifically scottish weapon, and the game has no scotsmen. It also wouldnt give much of a gameplay advantage for picking it over the larger twohanded sword (the claymore was faily small for its type).

I did add a lot of polearms that could serve as twohanded alternative for the games onehanded weapons. To compensate for the lack of shield I gave them a bonus in attack velocity, size and penetration depth.

@Dennis: not to mention it conveys no ingame advantage at all. Cept perhaps for having a spare weapon for when someone cuts an arm off. I think Hugo meant two-handed weapons though.

[bombzero]

dual wielding weapons is in no way shape or form a historically accurate or viable fighting tactic...it would not be realistic at all.

it is with enough soldiers!

seriously any squad using 2 handed weapons would be a great number of people BEHIND the shield wall, this tactic works in DF as well.

popular choices were longer spears than the frontline troops had so they could cover them from calvery charges, or long hafted Voulges to give them tremendous impact into any charging soldiers no the downswing. This tactic soundly defeated both calvary and infantry, while still defending against archers unless the line was broken. Needless to say, attempts at recreating this formation among non-trained groups resulted in something along the lines of hilarity for the leaders of the armys, as without the bravery to stare down a 100 man cavalry charge, they broke and ran.

This has been you worthless extended history bit for the day.


anyways, as far as swords go, what would be a significant advantage of broadsword-esque weapons? historically they were designed to punch through thicker armor, is this possible to make in DF? not sure about how weapon Raws work.

Also, Bastard sword, must include! heavy sword that can be wielded one handed by larger creatures and is a 2H for dwarf sized creatures.

[Grimlocke]

Bastard swords are allready in they are indeed twohanded for dwarves, and onehanded for humans.

Testing and balancing them against arming swords now, they win the nonarmoured fight and lose the armoured one as intended. Used 90 vs 90 humans. Quite bloody and... toothy, for some reason. How do you slash out someones teeth with a sword?

Revised version done: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5896

Changed stabbing penetration depth, reworked daggers, added crossguard bash attack to bastard and twohanded swords and added the estoc, an edgeless stabing sword. Also named the shortsword short arming sword, and added a long arming sword. The shorter ones get a faster stabbing attack, the longer ones more size and slashing contact area.