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Author Topic: Preparing for Dragon Breeding  (Read 8272 times)

Girlinhat

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Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« on: March 07, 2012, 11:36:02 am »

Quote from: Toady
Right from the beginning, you'll be able to attempt to tame any critter you capture that is eligible (those with PET/PET_EXOTIC, i.e. most stuff). The trick will be that if you go out of your civilization's comfort zone, your fort might end up like a Fatal Attractions episode.

So, it appears that any valid creature may be tamed in the next release, including dragons - with some effort.  It's alright though, we have a number of migrants who can die in the process of gleaning knowledge of the creatures and understanding their nature.  This also includes certain creatures like Hydra and Roc that could be... interesting, to say the least.

How do we perform this best, and how do we weaponize it?

From Toady's post, it sounds like failed taming attempts may lend to escaped animals which may or may not attack dwarves depending on what kind of animal.  Thus, my exotic taming pin will likely be a circular arena setting with the cage in the middle and cage traps over the door (webbed if needed).  The dwarf will enter, and attempt a tame.  If successful, the creature is tamed.  If failed, the dwarf flees and/or dies, while the creature runs out and gets caged once more.  Repeat until success.  Once enough "Civilization Knowledge" is gathered on the beast, then your career tamer can start taming them instead of useless migrants.

The breeding is trickier.  Dragons breed fairly quick-ish, but they take 1,000 years to mature, and we don't know how long an egg takes to hatch.  Hydra do not appear to breed at all.  Sea serpents take 6 years to mature, although they are egglayers and we currently assume that nest boxes cease function underwater (untested).  Sea Monsters actually appear to have no gender, and thus no breeding, although they DO have a child count, strangely...  The Roc matures in 1 year, with a value multiplier of 15, but a fairly massive egg that probably takes decades to hatch.  Most of the other fun creatures (minotaur, giants, mermaids, bronze colossi) can't be tamed, at least in this version.  Toady may update the raws to make them exotics.  Regardless of all this, slight modding can be done to ensure childbearing.

Although once we are breeding animals... what would be done with them?  Many of them are highly valuable pets, not to mention that a great number are powerful creatures of war, and some are mounts.  Mounts currently can't be used, but in the future this sort of thing will prove valuable, so getting the knowledge now will do more good than harm.

ASCIt

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 11:41:39 am »

dwarves riding dragons = win.

gobbos riding dragons = oh shi-

I once embarked on a site that happened to have a pair of Rocs, who had themselves a nest full of Roc eggs. This was before they were actually aloud to breed, but I never had a chance to see if the eggs could hatch because caravan guards slaughtered the parents...
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This is a very dorfy thread, and you WILL read it.

Sphalerite

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 11:42:42 am »

I think I may hold off making a serious fort in DF2012 until this change goes in, so I can have some fun testing it.
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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 11:51:49 am »

What's the average timescale for main page announcement to release? You might be waiting longer than you think...

Also, lol at the method Toady's using to fix the DM bug. This isn't so much 'nuke it from orbit' as 'terraform the whole planet'.
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Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Urist McGyver

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 11:54:52 am »

dwarves riding dragons = win.

gobbos riding dragons = oh shi-

I once embarked on a site that happened to have a pair of Rocs, who had themselves a nest full of Roc eggs. This was before they were actually aloud to breed, but I never had a chance to see if the eggs could hatch because caravan guards slaughtered the parents...

Atrocity!!!
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It's treated as completely normal because this is Dwarf Fortress.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with surrounding yourself with a wall of flames, only to later realize that you're surrounded by a wall of flames.
There's nothing that can't be solved by hurling fifteen roc birds at it.

khearn

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 12:07:44 pm »

I saw the thread title and figured I'd skip it because it was clearly some newb who had no idea what breeding dragons would involve. Then I noticed it was started by girlinhat and quickly changed my mind. :)

I suspect you'd want to start off by having a dogsplosion and training beaucoup war dogs to level up your trainer. This will be a major change from my old training strategy. I used to have each soldier train a war dog or two, and never assign them. An unassigned war dog will follow its trainer, but the trainer doesn't get bad thoughts if the unassigned dog dies. So I could basically have war dogs "assigned" to my soldiers without risking bad thoughts when (not if) they died.

Now I'll probably have one trainer and have to have a different strategy for employing the war dogs. I don't think I'll assign them to soldiers, the dogs die too easily, and having a bunch of unhappy, heavily armed dwarves around turns out to be a Bad Ideatm (who knew?).

I guess I'll set up pastures for them in entrances, or maybe in a cage or behind a door opened by a pressure plate that a passing invader will open.

As for breeding dragons, I kind of doubt it will be very practical, although it's probably worth doing just for the awesome factor. Young dragons just aren't all that tough. I learned this when I encountered my first dragon and a lone axedwarf managed to kill it with ease. So unless you mod them to grow up a lot faster, you'll have to run a fortress for hundreds and hundreds of years before the locally bred dragons are useful.

Oh yeah, you'll also have to run worldgen for a thousand or more years in order to have adult dragons to breed in the first place. Or do the dragons created at the beginning of time start out as adults? My understanding was that they didn't, which is why dragons on 250 year old worlds aren't that tough.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 12:13:02 pm »

...wonder how many real days it would take to hit a 1,000 year fort and get legit, mature dragons.

miauw62

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 12:13:17 pm »

Hmm..
I may try making my first fort a !!science!!y fort for this one.
Since it doesnt include terryfing biomes and such, and im not very expirienced in that kind of things
I'm also wanting to to test organ disfunction and if dwarves are hospitalized for it, so i could test them in a single fort, i guess.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 12:20:45 pm »

It'd certainly be neat to have a fortress centered around dragon breeding. Maximizing FPS would be the main concern after actually grabbing some, though.

1000 years would be like, 7 dwarf generations. That's the stuff dry fantasy novels are made of.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 12:24:07 pm »

I'll probably work on that when mounts are working and we can lay siege to outside location.  THEN I'll be able to actually mount up dragons and go roast some elves!

Eric Blank

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 12:39:55 pm »

1000 years isn't the length of their childhood period; they're adults the entire time and thus fit for breeding. They don't actually HAVE a [CHILD:x] tag, so I doubt they can currently reproduce at all. You can add the tag though, and whatever you set for x will be the age in years at which they become an adult. 10 is reasonable enough, even though they'd still be fairly small.

That being said, you could just as much send in a high master+ animal trainer the first round, and it's possible there would be an impressive turnout.
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Naryar

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2012, 01:06:39 pm »

Can't breed dragons at all, maybe because I modded them... aaargh

No dragons chooses to live with another dragon, even with 10 dragons and 5 caves.

Rollory

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2012, 01:19:28 pm »

Oh yeah, you'll also have to run worldgen for a thousand or more years in order to have adult dragons to breed in the first place. Or do the dragons created at the beginning of time start out as adults? My understanding was that they didn't, which is why dragons on 250 year old worlds aren't that tough.

According to my experiences, no.  They start having kids within a few centuries of being born.

It is possible that is a bug.

edit:
1000 years isn't the length of their childhood period; they're adults the entire time and thus fit for breeding.

Aha, ok, that explains it.  And in worldgen they definitely do breed.  (I don't know if that depends on the CHILD tag or not?)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 01:21:24 pm by Rollory »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 03:56:04 pm »

(I don't know if that depends on the CHILD tag or not?)

It's a good question that I've been struggling to figure out for a while, but it seems to have some importance. Animal breeding seems sketchy at best. With megabeasts able to reproduce during worldgen now it adds another layer of confusion that doesn't help. If anyone knows exactly what tags affect a species' ability to reproduce that would be great information.
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raptorfangamer

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Re: Preparing for Dragon Breeding
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 05:14:37 pm »

only in dwarf fortress.

a bug upgrades how a feature is handled.
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