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[Mr Frog]

@Leatra
I think it's incredibly arrogant to construe a certain way of enjoying gaming as inferior or undesirable, which is what I'm inferring from your post. Some people like to play games for their aesthetic appeal, some play games for intellectual stimulation, and some play games as a form of escapism. I fail to see why any one style is preferable to another.

I dislike the sentiment that the gaming industry is in decline simply because there exist games catering more to aesthetes than to others. There are still games that appeal to other audiences -- quite a few, I'd say. I'd only say the industry was in decline if there was a complete failure to appeal to anyone.

You didn't give any examples, which makes it hard to tell exactly what you're talking about, but I really don't think "dumbing down" (in the sense of simplifying game mechanics, which I'm guessing is more-or-less how you intended it to be understood) is necessarily a bad thing, though admittedly a great deal of it is personal opinion and even then it depends on which case is being examined (I'd have preferred it if you'd given examples of exactly what you think is "dumbing down" so that I'd know exactly what you're talking about). I think it boils down to whether the removed/simplified mechanics were necessary for the player's enjoyment of the game.

Finally, I flat-out do not understand your assertion that all FPS's are the same.

[Leatra]

I think the links I posted was enough examples.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, they are FPS games of course you are going to use gun sights. I'm talking about the monotonous gameplay of all these games. There is nothing new, everything is just... casual. You just do what game tells you to do. Games used to have cunning storylines and you actually had to use your brain and solve things. Some games literally could make you take notes and draw maps. Maps were big and you had to make choices about which direction to take and where to go first. Nowadays, we just run straight in corridor-style maps and shoot the bad guys while epic shit like explosions and cinematics happen. As for an example of dumbing down, play TES:Morrowind and then play TES:Skyrim. That's what dumbing down is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Left: Map for E1M6 of Doom
Right: Every CoD game

There are good FPS games too of course. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is an example, but they are very few.

Anyway, like what I said:

But majority like these games and there is nothing to say about it because of this fact.

Talking about this will only make me seem self-rightous, snobby and elitist. That's what the most gamers want and I'll just roll with it.

So, we were talking about Game of Dwarves.

[Mr Frog]

Okay, I'll grant you that the video games series in that first image are highly-similar, but they hardly constitute the entire market, or even every FPS series.

The second image is a severe exaggeration of a current trend in level design and implicitly carries with it a gross oversimplification of what makes a game fun. I fail to see how it qualifies as an example.

I haven't played Skyrim, but Oblivion got many of the same complaints and I thought it was lovely. In fact, I could never really get into Morrowind for the very reasons people claim that it's better. Are you saying that what you like in a game is better than what I like in a game?

[gtmattz]

Whenever I see a game like this, I see another opportunity for people to be exposed to DF.  It is not like these games are in any direct competition with DF, as they are all invariably dumbed down to the point of mindless simplicity, and people who want more from a game will quite possibly be exposed to DF.

[Loud Whispers]

bla bla/dwarfs are not monopolized/bla bla bla

[Murphy]

Dwarves in it look too cartoonish. We're not playing Snow White here. The crappy voice in the background only adds to that impression. Also, there won't probably even be any blood in that "Game of Dwarves", let alone severed guts or sprays of knocked-out teeth.

I say, pfaugh.

[Leatra]

Are you saying that what you like in a game is better than what I like in a game?

...no

Anyway, like what I said:

But majority like these games and there is nothing to say about it because of this fact.

Talking about this will only make me seem self-rightous, snobby and elitist. That's what the most gamers want and I'll just roll with it.

So, we were talking about Game of Dwarves.

Different people, different tastes.

[Alastar]

Typical for the industry: Take something amazing,  then suck the life out of it and streamline away everythign that makes it special.

Elder Scrolls games have always been clunky, sterile  and mostly broken. Older games were simply so open, vast and ambitious that it seemed excusable... putting out a polished product with the scope of Daggerfall would be almsot impossible. The much-lauded Morrowind was actually the biggest step towards mainstream-friendly mediocrity.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

Did it occure to anyone that someone with the name "Elite Neckbeard" could infact be a satrical or troll post?

That said even if it's not I get annoyed even more that people say games that include building/survival and Dwarves are all suddenly a Dwarf Fortress clone. Dwarf Fortress is so much more than the basic "Fotress Mode". It's explained as a "fantasy world simulator" by Toady himself for a very good reason.
When a game can generate a fantasy world to the stunning depth and complixity of DF then by all means call it a clone, but you'd still have to admit such a clone (asssuming it was built from the ground up) would still be impressive.

To wrap it up:
Dwarves/Dwarfs ≠ Original concept by Tarn.
Building a colony/settlement/town/city ≠ Original concept by Tarn.
Having to help your people survive ≠ Original concept by Tarn.
Fully procedural fantasy world generation with history = Original concept by Tarn.

[gimli]

yeah it looks a lot like dungeon keeper.

Also no game can beat DF in complexity. We shall win.

Well if they manage to put in enough features this "Game of Dwarves" might be interesting. Right now it looks like a cheap Dungeon Keeper thingy with dwarves in it, being made for young kids. The art style makes me wonder...their target audience is 10-15y olds?

[Leatra]

"game director for A Game of Dwarves" posted a reply at the other A Game of Dwarves thread. We discussed the game for 12 pages. If anybody wants to check it out.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99278.0

[Kogut]

"game director for A Game of Dwarves" posted a reply

Somebody that claim that he is a "game director for A Game of Dwarves". BTW, I am pope Benedict XVI.

[Leatra]

"game director for A Game of Dwarves" posted a reply

Somebody that claim that he is a "game director for A Game of Dwarves". BTW, I am pope Benedict XVI.

Yeah, he registered in 2011 and waited for a year to do this prank.

Also,

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=83995.msg2488653#msg2488653

[Valdrax]

I don't really see a reason to rage.  I mean, it's not like DF itself descended from the heavens, complete and original in every single way.  It borrowed ideas from Tolkein, various rogue-likes, and various sim games. 

I'll probably check the game out.  If it's even close to as good as Evil Genius, I'll play it all the way through (in probably a week or less), feel satisfied, and then return to elaborate goblin death traps and werelouse breeding projects.

[Hesperid]

Arr we be tryin' ta recreate tha success o' Minecraft by stealing from the same source it did yarr!  Now with a fantasy twist.