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[MiamiBryce]

I'm on lunch at work now but I wanted to say a couple quick things.

It's highly likely that one day you're going to permanently move on from the project, whether you get tired of it or other responsibilities come along.  If you're the type of person who's inclined to pass this project on when the time comes (I hope you are, this program is pure gold) the use of the devexpress library will make it almost impossible for anyone to pick it up.  I humbly suggest you migrate everything which requires special licensing towards free or less expensive solutions.

That being said I'm sure the back-end code you've written - maintaining/reading the token xml, loading the raws - precious, precious stuff which would still be valuable nonetheless.

I hadn't thought of the idea of doing something like a diff file, I see much value in that.

More later.

[BradUffner]

That's a fair request, but the DevExpress library is the only thing I've found with a grid control flexible enough to do what I wanted with the UI.  It handles all the grouping, nesting, and hosting of the custom editors within the grid.  Moving away from DevExpress would require either reimplementiing all the feature that the devexpress grids provide, which is a HUGE amount of work, or completely changing the UI of RawExplorer.  I'm not really looking forward to either of those options, but I am aware that reliance on such an expensive library would be a big stumbling block to continuing the life of Raw Explorer if I ever leave the project.

I've actually been working on splitting out the back end token and raw parsing code in to a separate library that would be available for anyone to use in other projects.  When I get around to finishing that there should be no problems making the source code for that library available under an Open Source license.

[MiamiBryce]

Oh bloody hell, I just hit a key combo for 'back' and lost a big fat message.  Here we go again...

After having spent some time looking over the Raw Explorer there's an element missing that I'd like to bring to your attention.  I'm not sure if you haven't gotten to implementing it or, because you're not a modder, are unaware of it.  Looking at the Inorganic Analyser I see that CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE is listed as having a MAX_EDGE of 0.  However, CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE does have a MAX_EDGE, it has the MAX_EDGE from STONE_TEMPLATE, which is 1000.

For reference here is CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE.  Note the second line, the USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE.  This is, what you'd call a macro, copy, or import statement (depending on what languages you've used).  It is a directive to pull into the definition of the object RIGHT NOW the values from that material template.  The reason I say RIGHT NOW is (and I know this works for plants, so it probably does inorganics too) any tokens you define in the object before the USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE statement are subsequently overwritten by the values pulled in from the template.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL:earthenware]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0][TILE:'#']
   [SOLID_DENSITY:1360]
   [IS_STONE]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [ABSORPTION:10]
   [BLOCK_NAME:brick:bricks]
   [DISPLAY_UNGLAZED]
   [NO_STONE_STOCKPILE]

...and here is the original STONE_TEMPLATE

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GRAY]
   [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:stone]
   [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:stone]
   [STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:ORANGE]
   [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:magma]
   [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:magma]
   [STATE_COLOR:GAS:ORANGE]
   [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling magma]
   [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling magma]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SPEC_HEAT:800]
   [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
   [MELTING_POINT:11500]
   [BOILING_POINT:14000]
   [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
   [COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
   [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:2670]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:3300]
   [MOLAR_MASS:36000]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:120000]
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:120000]
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:120000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:120000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [TENSILE_YIELD:15000]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:15000]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [TORSION_YIELD:15000]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:15000]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:15000]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:15000]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [BENDING_YIELD:15000]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:15000]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [MAX_EDGE:1000]
   [ABSORPTION:0]
   [ITEMS_HARD]
   [ITEMS_QUERN]
   [REACTION_CLASS:CAN_GLAZE]

...and so, with the inclusion of the USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE, here is CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE's actual, full definition.  The items in normal font are what were inherited from the STONE_TEMPLATE.  The items that are struck out are what is in the STONE_TEMPLATE but are overridden by CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE definition.  Finally, the items in bold are new from the CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE definition.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
   [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GRAY]
   [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:stone]
   [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:stone]
   [STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:ORANGE]
   [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:magma]
   [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:magma]
   [STATE_COLOR:GAS:ORANGE]
   [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling magma]
   [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling magma]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL:earthenware]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
   [TILE:'#']
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [SPEC_HEAT:800]
   [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
   [MELTING_POINT:11500]
   [BOILING_POINT:14000]
   [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
   [COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
   [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:2670]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:1360]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:3300]
   [MOLAR_MASS:36000]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:120000] used marble
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:120000]
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:120000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:120000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [TENSILE_YIELD:15000]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:15000]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [TORSION_YIELD:15000]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:15000]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:15000]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:15000]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [BENDING_YIELD:15000]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:15000]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
   [MAX_EDGE:1000]
   [ABSORPTION:0]
   [ABSORPTION:10]
   [ITEMS_HARD]
   [ITEMS_QUERN]
   [REACTION_CLASS:CAN_GLAZE]
   [IS_STONE]
   [BLOCK_NAME:brick:bricks]
   [DISPLAY_UNGLAZED]
   [NO_STONE_STOCKPILE]

What follows is simply what I would create if my lazy ass was going to, take from it what you will - if any.

The modding tool that I want to see would, when it pulls in the raws, fully resolve every token of every object but would be aware of which values on an object are the 'default' values that it inherited and which ones are changed for that object.  Then there would be an option to, when viewing objects, show the default values.  When all tokens are displayed, I'd imagine the object-specific values would be in a black forecolor and the inherited defaults would be displayed with a gray forecolor.  I would want to see the objects all properly related/linked up in the modding tool's memory such that if a material is changed, any object that inherits that material will be updated so it would display the new default values when viewed through the modding tool without having to save the raws out and then completely reload.

In a related vein, if an object has a token value assigned, and that value is the same as the default, I'd like to see the modding tool somehow indicate this, maybe with forecolor blue.  We would want to always preserve a token which is the same as a template, since a template can change and that token would allow the object to keep the value it is meant to have.

Another related item.  There are some tokens which allow updating of multiple token values.  For example STATE_NAME_ADJ sets the STATE_NAME and STATE_ADJ at the same time.  I think the tool should read from the was whatever sort of token is in them and populate the individual token items from it.  Then, when it saves the objects back to the raws in the most efficient manner.  So if an object has [STATE_NAME:moose] and [STATE_ADJ:moose] when original read in, when written back it out could be changed to [STATE_NAME_ADJ:moose].

I've just noticed how long this post is, I'll stop here.

[BradUffner]

I've fixed the bug in the Inorganic Analyzer that was stopping it from following the USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE tag.  I've also corrected the spelling of that tool and it's menu (sigh).  Expect it in the next version.

I love the idea to display inherited tokens in gray in the object editor grid.  I'll see what I can do about making that happen!  I don't know about optimizing the token output by default though.  Would a check box on exporting to apply optimizations work for you instead, similar to the one for sorting by name?

[MiamiBryce]

I should be clear, it is highly unlikely I will use Raw Explorer as I find it clunky and dis-jointed as-is so don't add anything just for me.  If I were you I'd be concerned with why or why not people with published mods are or are not using this program and why.

Since I described it as clunky and dis-jointed, I guess I should try to explain.  Because everything is in tree-views and drill-downs I don't feel like I can see things at-a-glance the way I can using PSPad when I can sort/organize everything (copy/past ftw) then simply scroll up/down in a text document.  I also have the ability to find a token in multiple documents with one search, multiple document find/replace, view difference between two files.

So I guess the kind of features that would make it useful for me would be an editable grid view (with filtering, sorting, explicit ordering (allow it to be sorted but also then set back to the explicit sort order), and searching) and undo/redo.

Now of course, the problem is - I've come to the conclusion I don't do anything the way anyone else does, so I re-iterate that in all likelihood what you really want to do is make a list of the active modders with published mods and PM them and ask them why they do or do not use this tool.  Now, if any power-modders are watching this thread, I'm sure BradUffner would appreciate any sort of input you could provide.

Thanks

[Fishybang]

This is a really newby question. I just installed this, and it starts up fine, but i don't know how to start using it, im thinking i need to use he "import raws" tool, but i don't know how to use it correctly.

[BradUffner]

This is a really newby question. I just installed this, and it starts up fine, but i don't know how to start using it, im thinking i need to use he "import raws" tool, but i don't know how to use it correctly.

You are correct!  Start the program, and choose the option to import raws.  Then just browse to, and select, the "raw" directory from your Dwarf Fortress installation.

[Fishybang]

This is a really newby question. I just installed this, and it starts up fine, but i don't know how to start using it, im thinking i need to use he "import raws" tool, but i don't know how to use it correctly.

You are correct!  Start the program, and choose the option to import raws.  Then just browse to, and select, the "raw" directory from your Dwarf Fortress installation.

Ok thanks!

[Sallen]

Sir, you are awesome for making this tool. Thank you!

[Umbra]

Noob question here. I have been adding trainable tags to various beastmen. (kea-man, bushtit-woman etc.)
Does the trainable tag enable them to be trained for war?
Do i also have to add the pet tag to them?
How do i save the raws once im done with adding the tags?
Will it be enabled in my current game or do i need to start a new one?

Thanks

[MiamiBryce]

Umbra, I can't answer your questions about what the tags do and if you need to start a new fort.  However, to save save your raws you have to go File-> Export -> Raws and select a folder to put the raws in.  I would suggest you use a different folder than your dwarf fortress folder, just to be sure.  I would then go into your saves folder and make a backup copy of your current fort.  Then copy the raw files you exported above into the raw folder of your save.  Next time you start up DF and load that save you should be good to go...that is if you don't need to regen to have the tag change applied.

Caveat:  I've never done this, I only just now did the export to verify it works as I expected but it should work

[Boochdizzle]

Bug report: opening the languages library and then closing it wipes out everything on whatever object you were looking at when you opened the library. Not sure if its actually destroying the raws or its just a display issue?

edit: wiping them out, same tag-deleting bug as below

[PTTG??]

Bug report: Deleting a plant raw deletes the selected raw, and erases the one immediately below it. The plant entry is still there, but all the tags are gone.

[Boochdizzle]

^ Same thing happened to me last night when deleting an entity, and an item (bucklers). Seems like deleting anything from the left window clears the object below it.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

hum... that hadn't been reported yet?