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Author Topic: (NAG) Ask The Mod, and General Purpose Mafia chat!  (Read 19952 times)

Bookthras

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Meph: please talk about how Private Messages influence a game in general, and Paranormals in particular.

I found BP2 very enjoyable, but would have wished PMs were allowed, so guards (Tolyk & I) could have confirmed why our wincons were different, or Jim/Irony find themselves as scumbuddies, or Toaster build a town base. It surely would have been a very, very different game had PMs been available.

* Most games do not allow PMs. Yours do. Why? How did you make the choice of allowing PMs for Paranormals? How do you think it impacts balance, and is this reflected in your weight algorithms?

* You allowed PMs for BP1, and it was instrumental on the resolution. You changed that for BP2. Why?

* I think PMs, in general, mean more work for the mod. Is that right? What burden does a PM-allowed game place on you?

* As advice for newer mods, would you recommend them to allow PMs or not? Or under which circumstances? How would you advise them to correct balance for it?

* How do you think a normal 9p near-mountainous/role-light/BM game would change in balance or dynamics if PMs were allowed?


Thank you for years of fun & enjoyable games. May there be many more. Cheers!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 09:25:44 pm by Bookthras »
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Leafsnail

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My suggestion would be that PMs allow a slightly unbalanced setup to become completely broken.  This is especially true if there is a Confirmed Townie around - they can force a private massclaim to them and organize night actions, putting the scumteam at a huge disadvantage.
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Bookthras

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Yeah, but fuck the scum!


PS: My post above is addressed to Meph, but I'd also like to hear how other mods would answer those questions.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 09:29:14 pm by Bookthras »
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Toaster

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I've found that players tend to ignore one-shot "PM another player" abilities.  Repeated buffing of the Roguelike Scroll of Mail has still left it unused.  I gave someone a nightly PM in BYOP and it didn't see much use.

I think for them to be relevant, they have to be gamewide.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Leafsnail

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Well yeah.  PMs add very little to the game unless the setup becomes slightly messed up when a townie is cleared.  Then they suddenly become really important.

Although Paranormal sees a bit more use due to the existence of aliens with strange wincons and investigative devices (so the Zoologist is a confirmed townie creating machine for instance).
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Bookthras

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I've found that players tend to ignore one-shot "PM another player" abilities.

There's also the flare power, "PM says I'm town" complication. In some games, it may be a fakeclaiming PM. In BSER, it did confirm the sender as town, which had an impact on the game... How to handle that "send flare" power? If it may or may not be a fakeclaim, it's totally worthless as it's pure WIFOM, but if it's confirmed truthful, it's too powerful. Is a middle ground desirable? If it is, how would it be achieved?
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Orangebottle

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I may not be a mod, but as a player, if I have to choose between PMing somebody and protecting/inspecting/killing, I'll usually take the second option. Toaster: Why not make the Scroll of Mail a free action, I.E. the user can use it along with another ability/item?
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Leafsnail

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There's also the flare power, "PM says I'm town" complication. In some games, it may be a fakeclaiming PM. In BSER, it did confirm the sender as town, which had an impact on the game... How to handle that "send flare" power? If it may or may not be a fakeclaim, it's totally worthless as it's pure WIFOM, but if it's confirmed truthful, it's too powerful. Is a middle ground desirable? If it is, how would it be achieved?
It has to be guaranteed to have any value at all (I'd say the same about cop inspects really - changed sanities render inspections almost useless if they aren't revealed on death).  Use your mod guaranteeing text if you want.  Possible balancing methods:
- Mafia has kills that pierce protections/ a daykill to take him out
- Trying to make friends with mafia gives the mafia player a chance to kill him
Other than that... it's basically a cop who gets other people to inspect himself.  It isn't that broken a role until you get other factors (such as PMs) that screw up confirmed townies.
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Toaster

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I may not be a mod, but as a player, if I have to choose between PMing somebody and protecting/inspecting/killing, I'll usually take the second option. Toaster: Why not make the Scroll of Mail a free action, I.E. the user can use it along with another ability/item?

I did, even allowing it during the day.  It still never got used.

That might be an interesting idea- give everyone an anytime one-shot PM to another player and see what happens.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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GlyphGryph

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the benefit of PMs is vastly reduced unless people can respond, in my experience.
It probably doesn't have to be everybody either, as long as they know other people can PM back.
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Mephansteras

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Meph: please talk about how Private Messages influence a game in general, and Paranormals in particular.
* Most games do not allow PMs. Yours do. Why? How did you make the choice of allowing PMs for Paranormals? How do you think it impacts balance, and is this reflected in your weight algorithms?
It has certainly effected things over the course of the series. The actual decision to include it initially was flavor: I couldn't see any reason people couldn't be calling one another. With cell phones, the phone lines being down doesn't really stop that.  For balance, I'd say it generally makes investigative roles more powerful, especially Agents (cops), since if they clear someone they can start talking with them directly. While there is usually some WIFOM there for the person being contacted, it can create some pseudo mason groups. So cop roles get weighted a bit more then they might otherwise.

Quote
* You allowed PMs for BP1, and it was instrumental on the resolution. You changed that for BP2. Why?
Flavor, mostly. I don't see how you can talk in secret without other people being able to at least tell that you're talking while you're running around in a group. It also made things more bastardly for everyone, since even the scum couldn't talk in secret.

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* I think PMs, in general, mean more work for the mod. Is that right? What burden does a PM-allowed game place on you?
Doesn't do much at for my workload, other then more PMs to read. But that's usually fun.


Quote
* As advice for newer mods, would you recommend them to allow PMs or not? Or under which circumstances? How would you advise them to correct balance for it?
Generally, you're better off not allowing them. PMs rarely have a huge impact on the game, but they can break certain roles wide open. Especially if you can get a confirmed town. So if you are going to allow them, make sure that no confirmed town can be created in your set up.

Quote
* How do you think a normal 9p near-mountainous/role-light/BM game would change in balance or dynamics if PMs were allowed?
Like I said earlier, Cops would be more powerful. Beyond that, a role-light game wouldn't have much of a change.


PMs in general have an interesting effect on the game. While most players don't use them, it is another tool for crafty players to use. Generally I see it used with specific combinations. For example, a cop will often PM a townie that they've inspected. Survivors also often PM the scum team to try to work a deal later in the game if it looks like the scum will win. Paranormal also sees heavy use of PMs when someone is captured by a Xeno, since that's the only way the captive can try to influence the game.
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Pandarsenic

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*Prances through thread*

I haven't hosted as recently as I'd like to have, but I might if I can find time. Beep boop I'm a shark.
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Toaster

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We're taking that as a promise.


Welcome back!
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Shakerag

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We're taking that as a promise that you'll be distracted and delayed by midterms.


Welcome back!

FTFY

NativeForeigner

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*Prances through thread*

I haven't hosted as recently as I'd like to have, but I might if I can find time. Beep boop I'm a shark.

I'll believe that when I see it. >_>
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