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[Jack A T]

Heh.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16196_7-commandments-all-video-games-should-obey.html

Lets see how DF does with these in adventurer mode...

7. Not too well.  Playing with friends in person is very hard, but playing with friends by e-mail or download is pretty easy.

6. Quite well. Long runs for objectives, but by the travel screen, they are easy.

5. Well. Player is not forced to do repetitive stuff (except for killing wolves), or go through repetitive stuff (except for the wolves).

4.
Weapons: Amazingly well. We start out with lots of great weapons...because everything is a weapon.
Rodents: DAMN CATS!
Attack effects: We see our enemies lose body parts! We see the injuries causing bleeding! The blood! The flying lost limbs!
Cookie-cutter bad guys: We have lots of unique people to kill.
3. None of those problems.
2. Stable in alpha. Awesome.
1. We don't need graphics for innovation and creativity.  We have large amounts of detail and gore.  We have worlds of unique people.  We have Urist.

[Neonivek]

I am kinda sad that the article wasn't written very well IMO or else I would have enjoyed it more...

[Kalimar]

I disagree with that article and its writer in his points 7 and 6, but 6 mostly.

Number 7 isn't an issue with games such as Grand Theft Auto IV.  Sure, your friends cannot join your game session, but you can certainly make up challenges like "Who can last the longest with 5 stars?" and then trade off turns.

In 6, I don't understand why he hates large environments that require travel. "Wow, what an awesome sprawling landscape your game inhabits. So sprawling that we have to ride a f**king horse for 20 minutes to get to the next mission. You also make it so that it's often not clear what the next objective is, and thus we must wander around aimlessly until we stumble across it." Look Mr. Writer dude, I like exploration and travel. I like the feeling of an adventurer on an adventure.

[ April 29, 2008: Message edited by: Kalimar ]

[Neonivek]

What he is refering to in number six is artificially making your game longer by forcing you to do arbitrary things that take a long time

Certainly exploration and travel is good... to an extent... He isn't against exploration and travel

He is speaking of games where 90% of the time you spend is just exploring vacant fields of no real interest... Just play Oblivion and do Mines for 30 hours and you will know what he meant somewhat. If you still enjoy it, then your one of the few.

Heck I stopped playing Legend of Zelda (the Wii one) because I was freeken tired of getting stuck and needing to travel for HOURS... Most of the game was quite litterally walking and getting stuck (for me).

What is the point of playing a game that is only fun for 10 minutes and then is boring for an hour when I could play a shorter game that is fun for 10 minutes then unfun for 5 minutes?

Too many games extend the gametime by adding pointless features that are legitimately not fun... or at least would otherwise be fun if it wasn't for the fact that you have to do it for most of the game.

"I like the feeling of an adventurer on an adventure"

Adventure yes... Deathmarch no... How many Indiana Jones movies actually force you to sit down and watch his entire 8 hour flight to Israel? How many Lord of the Rings movies made you sit down and count how many peices of grain there was in the Castle? How many Rocky Movies did they actually show the entire length of the Montage?

[Citizen of Erl]

quote:Originally posted by Neonivek:
<STRONG>
Heck I stopped playing Legend of Zelda (the Wii one) because I was freeken tired of getting stuck and needing to travel for HOURS... Most of the game was quite litterally walking and getting stuck (for me).
</STRONG>

By hours you mean five minutes, right? Because Epona crosses the map from the furthest points in about that much time. With the joy of running over moblins and the like long the way.

[Neonivek]

"By hours you mean five minutes, right?"

By hours I mean hours... because Epona doesn't
A) Crawl out of the game and give you gaming tips
B) stop you from entering the incorrect areas
C) Pick up Wolf Link and tell him where that last freeken Light bug is
D) cling to metalic walls and speeds you up in the single most annoying part of the game that should have NEVER EVER been made.
F) highlight the CORRECT plant you had to use next the the exact same one you actually need to use.
G) Follow you without reeds that magically at the point of the game you are at now ONLY appear at the start of the VERY INCREDABLY long town you will have to backtrack to... Or in areas that Epona is required for.
H) Take less then 5 minutes to get everywhere knowing that you in fact will have to travel for about 20, 30, 60 minutes in total just to solve the latest puzzle that forces you to backtrack to the very START of the game where your old paths no longer work... Then Walk ALL the way back and find out that apperantly the method of using it doesn't make sense, you had to apperantly be Psychic.
I) Fix your game after you smashed it in two
J) Cure your insanity

The game isn't bad... but I wish I actually spent more time having fun before I was on the most annoying puzzles and travel time on earth... I am not attached to GameFAQs by the hip... I wanted to actually beat the game myself.

On a side note: The Metal Boot puzzle stage should have NEVER been made... Congradulations... you made link go SO slow he actually moves faster by attacking... Ohh look the ordinary enemies seem to be trying to bore me to death... What is worse is I died during it and had to restart the dungeon from the start. Mysteriously through my Iron Will I still played the game after that.
-If that stage didn't exist... EVERYTHING I just said would be different.

"Because Epona crosses the map from the furthest points in about that much time"

take 5 minutes... multiply that by 6... Then multiply that by 2... that makes an hour...

[umiman]

What Neonivek is saying is simple. Take Adventurer mode for example. I want to join the religion of fertility, cannibalism, and tomatoes. I don't want to bloody search for the bloody high priest in a bloody city of hundreds with 5fps to work with.

Or

I want to kick this minotaur's ass. I don't want to wander around a humongous, gigantic, cavern of cramped, hideously small walking space killing rats for 3 hours looking for him.

[Kalimar]

quote:Originally posted by umiman:
<STRONG>What Neonivek is saying is simple. Take Adventurer mode for example. I want to join the religion of fertility, cannibalism, and tomatoes. I don't want to bloody search for the bloody high priest in a bloody city of hundreds with 5fps to work with.

Or

I want to kick this minotaur's ass. I don't want to wander around a humongous, gigantic, cavern of cramped, hideously small walking space killing rats for 3 hours looking for him.</STRONG>

Well I enjoy doing those things.

[Kagus]

The caves bug me a bit...  If they were more interesting to venture through, instead of just being the senseless bugsplat of a tunnel system that they are now, then I would certainly be more inclined towards spending my time in there.  It would also help immensely if you could actually find something to eat or drink down there to replenish your stock after you've run out.

By the way, I think I lasted an entire day/night cycle in GTA:VC with six stars.  No, I wasn't hiding, I was on a roof with a minigun.  Eat that, Montana.

GTA had a lot of backtracking and getting lost on the way to something, but the cities were at least interesting.  You could always count on there being some billboard or restaurant to keep you entertained with some little joke.  That and the pedestrians who jump in front of your car, of course.

Ahh...   I remember the times when I'd get two stars, steal a boat, and then sit underneath a bridge with short railings.  Man, that was good stuff right there.

[ April 30, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Cookie-cutter bad guys: We have lots of unique people to kill.

Actually, one problem inherent to roguelikes is most enemies are pretty much the same, just with different stats.  There is some variation, but most of 'em feel exactly alike.  The uniqueness of DF's NPCs is currently still more technical than apparent.  We see more variation in Fortress mode than Adventure mode, of course, since their thoughts and personalities make them all behave somewhat differently.

[umiman]

Oh? I imagine the fight scenes in adventurer mode to be far more impressive, but it's mostly illusions in my head... and the way I kill everyone differently.

Adventurer: "Hey... guard, give me a quest."

Guard: "I don't have any use for you, but if you speak to-URGHHHHKKK!!!!"

Guard B: "You bastard! Di-*slice*"

Female Civilian A runs away screaming, but is struck through with Guard A's spear, impaling her against a tree.

Male Civilian A runs from behind screaming vile murder, adventurer drops his weapons, grabs the civilian by the face, plucks out an eye, and throws him on the floor. Adventurer grabs sword and cuts off the civilian's limbs, then throws sword and an incoming male child, slicing off a foot.

etc. etc. etc.

[Deon]

quote:So when she comes over, do you think he's going to put on his GTA IV headset, or pop in Mario Galaxy? Here's a hint: The second choice gets him closer to touching boob.

LOL what a little prick wrote this article? I laughed =).
Does he mean that if you want to "get closer to touching boob" you should play Mario? Get a life, man -). I mean, it was not a very successful example/comparison  .

[Wiles]

The rodents comment reminds me of Anarchy Online (or was it neocron? I forget). I was looking forward to trying a futuristic MMO. My first mission was to go into the sewer and kill rats with a knife... I promptly uninstalled the game.

[ April 30, 2008: Message edited by: Wiles ]

[Neonivek]

"We don't need graphics"

Interestingly I played Dwarf Fortress with a total Tileset (in otherwords it changed almost everything) and I found it hard to play anyother way... It is kinda nice to know which G your actually fighting (Goat, Goblin, Groundhog), what kind of guard your up against, or which Humans are Drunks from a distance without using L or K.

It is one of the major flaws of many Roguelikes without graphics beyond ASCII where you basically to play effectively you have to individually check every creature to make sure the (d)og your attacking isn't a (d)ragon. or even if that (d)ragon is a (b)lue dragon or a (b)lack dragon. Though interestingly because of traditionalists and elitists many people are against graphics in roguelikes of anysort.

I guess I kinda got into it late... I originally started playing roguelikes (which eventually lead me to Dwarf Fortress) because of those interesting things you could do in it... it was like one GIANT game of secrets... You could eat a pie and find a file inside and use that file to open grates. In fact the #1 thing that first attracted me to Roguelikes was a secret for a game where something becomes poisonous and you need to wear gloves.

At this point I am really just rambling

[Kagus]

Personally, I'd rather play with ASCII characters than nonmoving graphic characters.  But then again, I haven't actually tried playing with the graphic sets, I've just seen pictures.