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[martinuzz]

Trying to but I get too much shitstorm for things I post lately and I don't take well to being called out for a liar while all I do is translate an article.

But okay I'll try to remember next time to link the articles as well, and disregard the follow up posts complaining about not being able to read Dutch

[SirQuiamus]

No shitstorming here. Have a toke and chill, you crazy Hollander.

[martinuzz]

Today, Cologne is deploying 1700 police officers, to keep Pegida/Pro Köln protestors and anti-fascist protestors from clashing.
The Pegida party and the extreme-right pro-Köln party have called upon their supporters to meet up at the central station in Cologne and march through the city.
Several left wing groups have responded by calling for a protest demonstration against the planned march.
According to press agency Reuters, already, 2000 left wing protestors have gathered at the central station to oppose the march.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/1-700-agenten-moeten-demonstraties-keulen-in-goede-banen-leiden~a4221666/

[Sheb]

I wonder if Helgo's there.

[scriver]

Honestly I have to wonder if this is basically just Europe having to deal with a bit more ethnic diversity than they have in the past. They still need to get past the 'horrible ethnic tension' phase, and up to the 'ethnic tension' phase, where America's managed to get.

This is ridiculous. Are you trying that we should just be more tolerant of the people harassing and assaulting women and girls in the street? More tolerant of the cultures in which this is an okay thing to do (particularly if the victim does not belong to their own group)? That if we was just a little more accepting of their racism, their violence, and their hatred, there would be less problems stemming from their racism, violence, and hatred? I am going to assume you don't actually mean to imply any of those things. So what is your point, exactly?

[Sheb]

I guess his point is that we should learn to deal with criminals without spending 90% of our time ranting about "cultures", "race" and so on. It's kinda shameful that since the attack, at least 90% of commentary has been either focused on ranting about how it's because their culture just make them into rapist (which is racist and stupid) or on how we shouldn't discuss it because it's going to fuel racism (which makes up for not being racist by being doublestupid), as opposed to discussing how to stop this from happening again/catch the perpetrator/support the victims.

[scriver]

Deal with the criminals how, exactly? What percentage of the culprits do you think are going to be arrested, let alone sentenced? Because there is only one way to stop this from happening again - to deal with the culture that makes the perpetrators behave this way. Because do you know how "western" culture stopped being majorily misogynist pigs for which violence against women was seen as okay? They kept talking about culture, and they dealt with that culture.

[Sheb]

Camera? Better policing during large events? (Mostly, be ready to mass arrest people if needed). Making an exemple of gropers. Enforcement seems to be a much more efficient way to send a message than some vague ranting about "cultures". I mean, how do you intend to change the "culture" of those people?

[Arx]

I'm not sure, and I might be projecting here, but what I think Scriver's getting at is that in Western countries culture has become largely divorced from race, and so assuming that someone must have certain cultural values becomes racist. With the influx of immigrants, that's no longer so much the case, and the Western countries need to at least acknowledge that.

I think.

[Sheb]

I'm not sure, and I might be projecting here, but what I think Scriver's getting at is that in Western countries culture has become largely divorced from race, and so assuming that someone must have certain cultural values becomes racist. With the influx of immigrants, that's no longer so much the case, and the Western countries need to at least acknowledge that.

I think.

You mean Rolepgeek?

[Arx]

Uh, bit of both, I guess.

Honestly, looking at Scriver and Rolepgeek's posts, I suspect they agree but don't realise it.

[martinuzz]

The German police Union has stated that the events in Cologne could have been prevented, if there hadn't been that many agents sent out to protect the borders, because of the refugee crisis.
The Bayern ministister of internal affairs, Joachimm Hermann, says this is not true. He says the refugee crisis at the border is also important, and despite several police stations suffering from understaffing, he regards the deployment of extra forces to the borders as justifiably.

They also further clarified the suspension, which by now has become an official early retirement, of the Cologne police chief Albers.
His position became under fire because of two things he said:
1) he said that the police had things under control, while in reality they did not.
2) he stated that the sexual assaults were "merely a diversion" used by robbers, so they could rob people, while in reality, according to debriefings, "sexual amusement was the primary goal of the assailants"

In the past few days, it has become clear that Cologne has not been the only German city where incidents occured, there's reports coming in from other cities, including Hamburg. So far, 170 complaints have been filed with the police, two thirds of which include sexual violence.

So far, the police have arrested 31 suspects, amongst whom are 18 refugees. They are being accused of theft, and agression. One of the suspects is also charged with sexual verbal harrasment. No suspects have been arrested for the sexual violence charges yet.
The 31 suspects include 9 Algerians, 8 Moroccans, 5 Iranians, 4 Syrians, one Iraqi, one Serbian, one American, and two Germans.

In the posession of one of the suspects, a Arabic- German short dictionary was found with translations for "nice tits", "I want to fuck", and "I will kill you".

Police are still investigating if the assaults and robberies were a coordinated event.

An eye witness, a female refugee from Iraq, told the Guardian that "I saw how three neatly dressed man gave instructions to groups of young men, and then dispersed back into the crowd, only to repeat the procedure with more groups of young men. Sometimes they paused to take selfies". The eyewitness herself got injured when she tried to protect keep fireworks from being thrown into the buggy holding her 3 year old son. <<< my personal thought there? Heh, it's the Guardian. It probably were three German drunk guys wishing refugees happy new year and making selfies so they can show their friends they're not rascist.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/politiebond-excessen-keulen-te-wijten-aan-inzet-agenten-voor-vluchtelingencrisis~a4220827/

[Strife26]

While I do agree that blaming things on them dirty foreigners isn't especially helpful, discounting differing values isn't a good thing. There's, without a damn doubt, places in the world where the social norms are absolutely horrifying in their regard for women and children. It's a matter of trying to bend those social norms into something acceptable, at least in our own neighborhoods, and without betraying our own values.

[TD1]

If someone moves somewhere they aught to accept the values of the place they go to and at least respect them enough not to do something contrary to them. If you don't like the values, then go somewhere else. I know I'd never live in Syria as it means my children would have to wrap up their heads. Assuming I had children. Why would a Syrian go to France if they know the values are so different?

[Strife26]

Money, family, safety, shits-and-giggles.

Regardless of your opinion, Syrians are going to want to, make the attempt, and succeed (in progressively decreasing amounts) to head to France. The issue at hand, is what France is going to do about it