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[Truean]

organized criminals having guns is actually not that big of a deal - they try pretty hard to not end up caught in admissible evidence in confrontations that could be violent.

FTFY

Fun fact, American Steel is actually 0.001% Mob Debtor.

Guns are tricky, for practical and political reasons. Historically, Americans have long used guns to settle things. There's really no way an anti gun lobby would ever last, if only for lack of being bulletproof. One true thing is that guns are tools. Sadly, they are often misused. It's easier to do a lot of things, than to soften, much less refine, the human heart....

[Leafsnail]

America has slightly higher rates than western Europe (about 3 deaths per 100k people instead of 1)

Are you seriously trying to claim that triple the rate is a minor difference?

[MonkeyHead]

While I think that America's gun obsession is dangerous, I don't think that outliers like this attack should be what guide gun control policies. They account for a tiny percentage of all death after all.

I'm more concerned that this terrorist attack, despite certainly being politically motivated and killing three times as many people as the Boston marathon bombing, doesn't seem to be considered a terrorist attacks by the mainstream media? Where is the outrage at policy failure? The anguish about the way some in the white community self-radicalize through the internet? The questioning about what should have been done?

Maybe Black lives don't really matters...

News in the UK reported that he was bought the gun he used as a birthday present. That.... that sets off alarm bells for me.

I fully accept and understand the right for a citizen of the US to own and operate a gun (even if I might dispute the need). Such is the way of things over there. However, the idea that someone can buy a gun, then give it to someone (even if said transfer is legal) scares me. The person buying a gun could be responsible, sane, competent, and skilled it both its use and maintenance - but how in blue hell does the seller of the gun have any idea about the same aspects of the third party being given a gun? The world over we go to great lengths who can access various potentially dangerous things, from cars to chemical substances. Yet it is OK for something like a gun to be bought only to be given on with no checks or balances? Worrying.

[Helgoland]

America has slightly higher rates than western Europe (about 3 deaths per 100k people instead of 1)

Are you seriously trying to claim that triple the rate is a minor difference?

And my axe. Seriously, a fucking 300% increase in murders per people is a big fucking deal, and not just something you can handwave away because Mexicans.

[scriver]

While I think that America's gun obsession is dangerous, I don't think that outliers like this attack should be what guide gun control policies. They account for a tiny percentage of all death after all.

I'm more concerned that this terrorist attack, despite certainly being politically motivated and killing three times as many people as the Boston marathon bombing, doesn't seem to be considered a terrorist attacks by the mainstream media? Where is the outrage at policy failure? The anguish about the way some in the white community self-radicalize through the internet? The questioning about what should have been done?

Maybe Black lives don't really matters...

News in the UK reported that he was bought the gun he used as a birthday present. That.... that sets off alarm bells for me.

I fully accept and understand the right for a citizen of the US to own and operate a gun (even if I might dispute the need). Such is the way of things over there. However, the idea that someone can buy a gun, then give it to someone (even if said transfer is legal) scares me. The person buying a gun could be responsible, sane, competent, and skilled it both its use and maintenance - but how in blue hell does the seller of the gun have any idea about the same aspects of the third party being given a gun? The world over we go to great lengths who can access various potentially dangerous things, from cars to chemical substances. Yet it is OK for something like a gun to be bought only to be given on with no checks or balances? Worrying.

I dunno, mwnci. I think it's less that you can give someone a gun without checks and more that you can be given a gun without checks.

...Semantically speaking.

[UXLZ]

America has slightly higher rates than western Europe (about 3 deaths per 100k people instead of 1)

Are you seriously trying to claim that triple the rate is a minor difference?

And my axe. Seriously, a fucking 300% increase in murders per people is a big fucking deal, and not just something you can handwave away because Mexicans.

And my bow. Though it's technically a 200% increase, not a 300% one. :v

[Frumple]

News in the UK reported that he was bought the gun he used as a birthday present. That.... that sets off alarm bells for me.

Noted in the USApol thread that's false. Guy bought the gun with birthday money, but the gun itself wasn't a present. Also worth noting that the guy had prior record, iirc, and shouldn't have been able to buy the gun :V

That said, yes, people get firearms as gifts. It's noted well that the vast majority of illegal guns in the US start legal, and it's not exactly uncommon for a gun to show up in the hands of someone that couldn't pass a background check because friends/family gave it over, sometimes as some sort of gift. Hell, the one gun I actually own (an antique .22 that's over a century old at this point. Still works, last I checked on it, but that's been a bit.), was passed down to me by family. Don't recall it being a birthday gift, but... yeah, it happens, and there's pretty much no oversight on the process.

Mind you, if you possess a firearm you shouldn't, the gifting process won't protect you from potential legal repercussions, but you don't exactly have to check in with the local law enforcement or whatev' to pass a firearm to... anyone, really, in most states, so far as I can recall.

[Graknorke]

Noted in the USApol thread that's false. Guy bought the gun with birthday money, but the gun itself wasn't a present. Also worth noting that the guy had prior record, iirc, and shouldn't have been able to buy the gun :V

So do they know how he actually did get the gun? But it from a source of dubious legality or something?

[ggamer]

Once again everybody has to identify the exact wrong issue with the fact that someone with a mental disorder has been walking around that long without getting treatment

Personally I do think we need stricter gun control laws in the US, but I also think that doing so isn't going to make the problem just go away. The abhorrent condition of mental healthcare in the US is and always will be the root of the issue, and the fact that I have seen zero congressmen try to tackle this issue is literally disgusting to me.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Noted in the USApol thread that's false. Guy bought the gun with birthday money, but the gun itself wasn't a present. Also worth noting that the guy had prior record, iirc, and shouldn't have been able to buy the gun :V

So do they know how he actually did get the gun? But it from a source of dubious legality or something?

I so far haven't seen a source on that, but it wouldn't need be a black market purchase. He would have had a much easier time getting it from a gun show, as they are wholly exempt from background check laws and waiting periods.

They can be...uh....fascinating places.

[ggamer]

Noted in the USApol thread that's false. Guy bought the gun with birthday money, but the gun itself wasn't a present. Also worth noting that the guy had prior record, iirc, and shouldn't have been able to buy the gun :V

So do they know how he actually did get the gun? But it from a source of dubious legality or something?

I so far haven't seen a source on that, but it wouldn't need be a black market purchase. He would have had a much easier time getting it from a gun show, as they are wholly exempt from background check laws and waiting periods.

They can be...uh....fascinating places.

It is alarmingly easy to buy nazi paraphernalia at gun shows, especially here in the south

[Frumple]

Once again everybody has to identify the exact wrong issue with the fact that someone with a mental disorder has been walking around that long without getting treatment

Uh, actually, from what I've been picking up the guy had no history or particular indication of having a mental disorder (though it's entirely possible I've missed an update or somethin' that says otherwise). He was to all appearances just a hateful racist fuckwit.

I... know a lot of people would like to think that racist vitriol extending to the point it did for this guy is a mental disorder, but... to a large extent, it's not. It's just what can happen when you've been sufficiently inculcated into that sort of hatred.

[ggamer]

Once again everybody has to identify the exact wrong issue with the fact that someone with a mental disorder has been walking around that long without getting treatment

Uh, actually, from what I've been picking up the guy had no history or particular indication of having a mental disorder (though it's entirely possible I've missed an update or somethin' that says otherwise). He was to all appearances just a hateful racist fuckwit.

I... know a lot of people would like to think that racist vitriol extending to the point it did for this guy is a mental disorder, but... to a large extent, it's not. It's just what can happen when you've been sufficiently inculcated into that sort of hatred.

I'd have to respectfully disagree. I know a lot of racist folk, some more low key than others, but I have never met someone who was filled with so much racist vitriol that they would go and shoot up any black people, let alone a church.

I can't logically comprehend a healthy mind finding that an appropriate response, no matter how bad things are down here.

[Angle]

Uh, actually, from what I've been picking up the guy had no history or particular indication of having a mental disorder (though it's entirely possible I've missed an update or somethin' that says otherwise). He was to all appearances just a hateful racist fuckwit.

I... know a lot of people would like to think that racist vitriol extending to the point it did for this guy is a mental disorder, but... to a large extent, it's not. It's just what can happen when you've been sufficiently inculcated into that sort of hatred.

This.

That said, I agree with ggamer about the state of metal healthcare in the US. It is pretty terrible.

[Dutchling]

i heard they got pretty good metal healthcare in scandinavia