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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1291085 times)

Wolfhunter107

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9810 on: April 02, 2015, 05:06:29 pm »

Double Post
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 05:13:04 pm by Wolfhunter107 »
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Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9811 on: April 02, 2015, 05:32:48 pm »

I can't remember many terrorists incidents Israel has encouraged
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations
By extension you'd have to call the CIA a terrorist organization.
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Frumple

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9812 on: April 02, 2015, 05:34:28 pm »

... considering what it's done over the years...
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Descan

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9813 on: April 02, 2015, 05:45:07 pm »

Due to having a democratic (non-totalitarian) government, Israel cannot be a rogue state. That still doesn't change a thing about all the shit they've pulled in Palestine.
Ehm,while it's certainly harder to be a rogue state as a democratic state, it's not *impossible*. I'm not saying Israel is democratic, authoritarian, or rogue. Just that that is kind of a weird stance to take.
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Wolfhunter107

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9814 on: April 02, 2015, 05:49:47 pm »

Due to having a democratic (non-totalitarian) government, Israel cannot be a rogue state. That still doesn't change a thing about all the shit they've pulled in Palestine.
Ehm,while it's certainly harder to be a rogue state as a democratic state, it's not *impossible*. I'm not saying Israel is democratic, authoritarian, or rogue. Just that that is kind of a weird stance to take.
This whole discussion is all a moot point anyway, due to the fact that the "Rogue State" thing is an American political tool.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9815 on: April 02, 2015, 08:07:42 pm »

Not entirely, I've also heard the US described as a fascist, apartheid, rogue state (mostly by the European far-left). Using any such terms without clear ontological definitions is what is meaningless.
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misko27

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9816 on: April 02, 2015, 08:13:57 pm »

Not entirely, I've also heard the US described as a fascist, apartheid, rogue state (mostly by the European far-left). Using any such terms without clear ontological definitions is what is meaningless.
okay.
Quote from: Wikipedia
Rogue state is a controversial term applied by some international theorists to states they consider threatening to the world's peace. This means meeting certain criteria, such as being ruled by authoritarian regimes that severely restrict human rights, sponsor terrorism, and seek to proliferate weapons of mass destruction.[5] The term is used most by the United States, though the US State Department officially quit using the term in 2000.[3] However, it has been applied by other countries as well.[6]
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Reelya

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9817 on: April 02, 2015, 08:19:30 pm »

I can't remember many terrorists incidents Israel has encouraged
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations
By extension you'd have to call the CIA a terrorist organization.

Latin America in the 1980's, US-Backed campaigns of terror against the civilian population. If massacring children then displaying their bodies in the streets to strike terror into the hearts of the populace isn't terrorism, what is?

The USA especially under Reagan has a vivid history of using pure terror to try and control the politics of latin america, usually through front groups of mercenaries, but working closely with US advisors who were either CIA or Green Beret. "The School of the Americas" trained a large proportion of the worst human rights violators of latin america. In fact, having been a graduate of that school is the strongest indicator of later human rights violations, and those people worked closely with US political advisors. The CIA even produced manuals for the school on how to murder political opponents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Operations_in_Guerrilla_Warfare

Basically, it's a manual created by the CIA for a rebel group explaining how to murder civilians to try and create an atmosphere of terror which would undermine the local government. This is text-book state-sponsored international terrorism. Considering that there are a whole long list of similar things from the 80's, the USA under Reagan was actually the number one state supporter of terrorism in the 1980s.

The sandinistas built a lot of schools and hospitals, and brought in democracy. And they had a squeaky clean human rights record compared to anyone the USA was supporting. Yet the USA was determined to turn the country into a bloody battlefield because they had the nerve to kick out Reagan's beloved murderous dictator. The US trained and backed forces did stuff like beheading women and children with machetes, raped and murdered nuns etc. But you know what, even today the US political guys involved in setting it up still say it was a good thing.

There's also an example from 1988 which illustrates how being a state actor allows you to do things which would be considered terrorism otherwise - the USA's downing of the Iranian airliner which was on a regular scheduled route over Iranian airspace (which killed 290 people). It was an accident of course, but "whoops sorry" wouldn't be enough if it was anyone else but US armed forces. So effectively we delineate things as - it's not terrorism if you have a badge, but only if it's a badge of a country we like.

The captain of the US ship had a history of trying to provoke violence from the Iranians, interfering with Iranian ships going about their normal legal stuff (like, he'd fire on Iranian patrol boats which were searching container ships for contraband within their own territory, which is entirely legal for them to do so). So you had this cruiser captain itching for a fight, attacks several ships that were doing nothing to him, then shoots down a civilian airliner then claims it was an F14 attacking his ship, even though his own ships instruments contradict everything he said.

Did he get charged, demoted or suspended? No he got a medal straight afterwards, then was put in charge of naval training for officers in handling combat situations.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 08:59:52 pm by Reelya »
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Morrigi

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9818 on: April 03, 2015, 09:01:25 pm »

I can't remember many terrorists incidents Israel has encouraged
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations
By extension you'd have to call the CIA a terrorist organization.
Yes, the CIA is indeed a terrorist organization, one that has far, far too much power.
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Morrigi

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9819 on: April 04, 2015, 03:37:20 am »

State-sanctioned terrorist organisation.
At this point, I'm not sure how much choice the State has.
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Reelya

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9820 on: April 04, 2015, 03:43:22 am »

Congress is only told things on a "need to know" basis. Meaning: they only find out what the CIA is doing by accident.

Morrigi

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9821 on: April 04, 2015, 03:54:01 am »

And the last President that made noises about shutting down the CIA died.
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9822 on: April 04, 2015, 11:56:34 am »

Some good news for a change:
http://tgeu.org/malta-adopts-ground-breaking-trans-intersex-law/
Quote
The introduced procedure before a notary requires a simple declaration based on a person’s self-determination and prohibits requests for medical information. The entire process lasts a maximum of 30 days. It thus delivers a key task of gender recognition that is to quickly enable the individual to pursue their live without further interference.
No, it's not April Fools'.

EDIT: Another quote.
Quote
The 2015 act states its own goals simply: “[to provide] a simplified procedure which respects the privacy of the person requesting that one's official documents be changed to reflect the person's gender” and acknowledges that “gender identity is considered to be an inherent part of a person which may or may not need surgical or hormonal treatment or therapy” and “sex characteristics of a person vary in nature and all persons must be empowered to make their decisions affecting their own bodily integrity and physical autonomy.”
Good Stuff.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 12:02:59 pm by surqimus »
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Descan

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9823 on: April 04, 2015, 12:13:11 pm »

That's basically what any decent human should recognize. The principle of "Fuck off, it's my body, my decisions."
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scriver

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9824 on: April 04, 2015, 12:23:38 pm »

[Obligatory self-mutilation comment]

:P
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