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[Morrigi]

Yes, clearly Israel is the victim here. Despite the fact that it still has nuclear weapons pointed at Europe.

[Helgoland]

How is that relevant to the UN's stance against Israel?

[Morrigi]

How is that relevant to the UN's stance against Israel?

The UN doesn't like rogue states, especially rogue states with appalling human rights records.

[Helgoland]

I'd hardly call Israel a rogue state. And did you even read the article? Their man rights record has nothing to do with it.

[Leafsnail]

Here is an interesting article containing generic talking points you've read dozens of times before:

[Morrigi]

I'd hardly call Israel a rogue state. And did you even read the article? Their man rights record has nothing to do with it.

It has unregulated nuclear weapons, has them aimed at countries that it is not in a threatened or actual state of war with, refuses to officially acknowledge said weapons, has used conventional incendiary weapons and bombs indiscriminately against civilian populations, and has historically attacked neutral parties that posed no threat.

It is effectively a rogue state.

And yet, the UN has attempted to ask Israel to please stop bombing civilians too many times?

[Leafsnail]

The reason Israel gets condemned so much is probably because there's no way to pass a meaningful resolution against it - the US will always veto it.  Iran doesn't need to be condemned 20 times per year because it has actual real sanctions against it, and it's always possible to pass more if needed.  Same goes for North Korea.

[Leafsnail]

It's like if the President beat someone up and then pardoned himself.  Yeah there are people who have done worse things, but the fact that the President is not facing any kind of measures for what he's done due to his privileged position means that a lot of people would be criticizing him.

[Morrigi]

The reason Israel gets condemned so much is probably because there's no way to pass a meaningful resolution against it - the US will always veto it.  Iran doesn't need to be condemned 20 times per year because it has actual real sanctions against it, and it's always possible to pass more if needed.  Same goes for North Korea.

It's like if the President beat someone up and then pardoned himself.  Yeah there are people who have done worse things, but the fact that the President is not facing any kind of measures for what he's done due to his privileged position means that a lot of people would be criticizing him.

This is probably true, except Israel is not nearly important as the President, in the grand scheme of things. Or at least, it shouldn't be.

[Sheb]

That's not reall true. The fact is that Israel has no allies to speak of safe the US, while there are a crapton of arab countries who can get brownies point domestically by taking up the Palestinian cause at no cost. So yeah, Israel is a dickish, rogue state, but it gets called out much more than other terrible states for political reasons.

[Leafsnail]

They get criticism but no actual consequences.  Let me get my tiny violin.

I mean maybe they wouldn't have alienated the rest of their western allies if they weren't an apartheid state but hey.

[Helgoland]

The reason Israel gets condemned so much is probably because there's no way to pass a meaningful resolution against it - the US will always veto it.  Iran doesn't need to be condemned 20 times per year because it has actual real sanctions against it, and it's always possible to pass more if needed.  Same goes for North Korea.

And Syria? Father Putin keeps his hands over Assad...

[misko27]

There are a lot of states that you can't pass resolutions against. Namely, each of the five powers and their allies. Libya was an exception, but that's quite unlikely to happen again given how angry Russia was afterwards.

I'd hardly call Israel a rogue state. And did you even read the article? Their man rights record has nothing to do with it.

It has unregulated nuclear weapons, has them aimed at countries that it is not in a threatened or actual state of war with, refuses to officially acknowledge said weapons, has used conventional incendiary weapons and bombs indiscriminately against civilian populations, and has historically attacked neutral parties that posed no threat.

It is effectively a rogue state.

And yet, the UN has attempted to ask Israel to please stop bombing civilians too many times?

That's not what rogue state means though. You can't just apply words without knowing their definition. If violence against civilians, for example, had anything to do with being rogue, all the world over would be rogue.

Rogue state refers to a certain combination of terrorism, proliferation, and authoritarianism. Israel is hardly authoritarian to its own citizens (which is all that matters for this definition ), I can't remember many terrorists incidents Israel has encouraged, and claiming proliferation is hardly going to impress me, given their anti-nuclear stance (Having nuclear weapons does not make you a proliferator by itself; just think what that would imply). Claiming they have nuclear weapons pointed at European capitals is not impressive when a) there are only rumors, and b) pointing them is hardly the same as intent to use them. If russia was invaded they'd probably nuke Europe too, but they aren't rogue


Israel is not rogue. A pariah perhaps, and you might argue a bully, but not rogue.

[RAM]

I can't remember many terrorists incidents Israel has encouraged

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

[Wolfhunter107]

Due to having a democratic (non-totalitarian) government, Israel cannot be a rogue state. That still doesn't change a thing about all the shit they've pulled in Palestine.