Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 644 645 [646] 647 648 ... 759

Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1285763 times)

Frumple

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Prettiest Kyuuki
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9675 on: March 26, 2015, 09:09:54 am »

Wait, does that mean I can deny service to homophobes? Or NRA members? Or Republicans? Interesting...
You might have to either put a sign out or refuse on a case by case basis or somethin', but... more or less. Any reason is any reason, so long as it doesn't fall under the purview of legal protected classes. And if it does, you just choose some other reason that doesn't. Or don't give one at all, since you don't really have to, most of the time.

Again, the reason you don't see stuff like that more often isn't because of legal difficulties, it's because it's hell and a half to run a business like that. And a little bit of people not quite realizing what's on the law books.

E: Though obvious disclaimer is obvious -- you still want to check with a lawyer before doing something like that. General rules are made general by the exceptions, and there's no telling whether the particular state or locality you're operating in has something in place that would prevent such shenanigans.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 09:27:18 am by Frumple »
Logged
Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

Descan

  • Bay Watcher
  • [HEADING INTENSIFIES]
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9676 on: March 26, 2015, 09:15:30 am »

No one's askin' these damned people to fuck us, just take our money for goods and services. :I
Logged
Quote from: SalmonGod
Your innocent viking escapades for canadian social justice and immortality make my flagellum wiggle, too.
Quote from: Myroc
Descan confirmed for antichrist.
Quote from: LeoLeonardoIII
I wonder if any of us don't love Descan.

Darvi

  • Bay Watcher
  • <Cript> Darvi is my wifi.
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9677 on: March 26, 2015, 10:25:30 am »

No one's askin' these damned people to fuck us, just take our money for goods and services. :I
But they DO tell you to fuck yourself which apparently is close enough as an excuse?
Logged

SalmonGod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nyarrr
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9678 on: March 26, 2015, 12:13:00 pm »

FYI, that Indiana bill is being signed today.  At a secretive private ceremony, to prevent it being interrupted by any protest.

My facebook feed is exploding with controversy.  Lots of people breaking off with friends and family.  For any who might not know - because I live in Indiana, and most of my Facebook contacts are thus also Hoosiers.
Logged
In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

SirQuiamus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Keine Experimente!
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9679 on: March 26, 2015, 01:14:04 pm »

Wow... I just realized that "protected class" is an actual legal term over there in the States, which is to say that there actually are non-protected classes and legally acceptable forms of discrimination. :o
I was previously under the impression that federal anti-discrimination law was something like...
Quote
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 10 December 1948. It states that:" Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status." (my emphasis)
...but apparently American legislation is off the fucking wall in that respect as well.
Logged

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9680 on: March 26, 2015, 01:19:47 pm »

For a lot of countries, their national constittion supercedes the international declaration of human rights, even if said nation did sign it. Same here in the Netherlands: As a citizen, it is not possible to have your case tested with the human rights declaration, only with the constitution. The degree to which the UDHR is incorporated into the national constitution varies per nation.
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

SirQuiamus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Keine Experimente!
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9681 on: March 26, 2015, 01:37:37 pm »

And the problem is that Americans are too finicky about their sacred constitution to make it comply with the UDHR? I know that it is a problem, but I cannot understand why it should be a problem. :(     
Logged

penguinofhonor

  • Bay Watcher
  • Minister of Love
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9682 on: March 26, 2015, 02:10:40 pm »

.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 02:39:17 pm by penguinofhonor »
Logged

ArKFallen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bohandean Desserter
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9683 on: March 26, 2015, 02:15:00 pm »

A lot of people in America already view the UN as an imposing world government. Changing the Constitution because of them would be letting not just big government win, but the biggest government.
WTF?
What UN decisions have actually made the US government do something it wasn't already going to do?
Logged
Hm, have you considered murder?  It's either that or letting it go.
SigText
I logged back on ;_;

SirQuiamus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Keine Experimente!
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9684 on: March 26, 2015, 02:21:17 pm »

A lot of people in America already view the UN as an imposing world government. Changing the Constitution because of them would be letting not just big government win, but the biggest government.
Quote from: Teabaggers
UN is terrrible commie-NWO bullshit!! --But wait, if we abolish the UN, we'll no longer have a veto in the security council. Can't let that happen!
Logged

Helgoland

  • Bay Watcher
  • No man is an island.
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9685 on: March 26, 2015, 02:26:27 pm »

And the problem is that Americans are too finicky about their sacred constitution to make it comply with the UDHR? I know that it is a problem, but I cannot understand why it should be a problem. :(   
Complying fully with the UDHR would probably be a bad idea.

*ducks*

Now that I've evaded the first salvo of rotten fruits and vegetables, let me explain: The UDHR is very, very broad. No discrimination based on political opinion for example could mean Germany would have to stop throwing Holocaust deniers in jail, which we hopefully all agree is an understandable course of action given our history. More generally, any corrosive and intolerable political opinion would have to go unsilenced, even those calling for direct action against state and society or against segments of the population.

TL;DR: Some voices should be silenced.
Logged
The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Angle

  • Bay Watcher
  • 39 Indigo Spear Questions the Poor
    • View Profile
    • Agora Forum Demo!
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9686 on: March 26, 2015, 02:35:37 pm »

Ehh, even there, I'd rather use different methods. Widespread boycotting, perhaps, ongoing public denunciation. Lets leave the government out of it.
Logged

Agora: open-source platform to facilitate complicated discussions between large numbers of people. Now with test site!

The Temple of the Elements: Quirky Dungeon Crawler

Helgoland

  • Bay Watcher
  • No man is an island.
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9687 on: March 26, 2015, 02:37:41 pm »

That way you'll only achieve a muffling of those voices, to stretch the metaphor a bit. But some people shouldn't even be given the opportunity to become active politically.
Logged
The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9688 on: March 26, 2015, 02:39:33 pm »

No, look, discrimination is actually a fundamental part of the way laws have to work. We have to discriminate between, for example, members of the military and civilians as part of determining whether or not a shooting was murder or an act of war. The 14th Amendment guarantees "Equal Protection of the laws" to all persons, so there's a basic expectation that no unnecessary discrimination will occur on the part of the government. Suspicious classes are classifications that mandate particular kinds of judicial review; that is, if you pass a law that says something about black people specifically, that law must be subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than other laws in order to ensure that it isn't being pointlessly evil about the whole thing. Protected classes are ones where the government has passed laws that require citizens and organizations not to discriminate on those lines, but that's a whole other thing - but I can just about guarantee you that any law that conflicts with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights will stand or fall on whether or not it actually violates any of the rights, and not on whether or not that violation is equitable.

See, the US actually does follow the UDHR, because that quoted bit doesn't prohibit any and all forms of discrimination, it just prohibits discrimination with regard to the other rights in the document. Did any of you even read it?
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

hops

  • Bay Watcher
  • Secretary of Antifa
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #9689 on: March 26, 2015, 02:45:42 pm »

And they laughed when I said anarchy was the best option.
Logged
she/her. (Pronouns vary over time.) The artist formerly known as Objective/Cinder.

One True Polycule with flame99 <3

Avatar by makowka
Pages: 1 ... 644 645 [646] 647 648 ... 759