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[alexandertnt]

To me, social democracy is basically strong social elements, and some economic elements of socialism, largely supported by some degree of market economics (for example, through taxation), although more recently it seems basically just less-racist neo-liberalism.

I would consider myself a social democrat, albeit a pretty far left one.

Individualism is the sort of thing I would typically associate with right-wing politics, although to be honost I don't actually see collectivism and individualism as being all that incompatible. Ultimetely many collectivists argue to improve the condition of society overall, which happenes to be made up of individuals (therefore by helping society, your helping individuals), and individualists generally argue that people are better off on their own (which would happen to improve the condition of the society). It only really sounds incompatable when society is made out to be some nefarious sounding vague entity thing of doom, rather than what it is (a bunch of individuals who interact regularly with each other somehow), or something like that.

[scriver]

As I am roughly an individualist/pacifist/transhumanist anarchist in Germany, social democracy seems more centrist than leftist to me.

@scriver: There's a very huge difference between social democracy and socialism. They are about as much the same as the free market and state capitalism.

No, socialism is an umbrella term that social democracy falls under. The term be it's origin as a label for people who wanted to institute socialism through democratic, as opposed to revolutionary or violent, means. The end goal was still socialism.

And don't mistake the position of modern parties with "social democrat" in their names as the actual social democracy. The agenda and philosophy of parties can change without being ackompanied by a change of name. The biggest right wing party in Sweden is called "the Moderates" - they are not. Another party is called "the Center Party" - it's the party furthest to the liberal right. Agendas change, names remain. I can't say where the German social democratic party places itself these days, but social democracy itself remains leftwing.

[Helgoland]

No, socialism is an umbrella term that social democracy falls under.

Oh Goddammit, could we not start arguing definitions again? It's well-known (and has been discussed extensively) that terms like 'liberalism', 'socialism', 'communism' etc are ill-defined and have no universally agreed-upon usage.
The German Social Democrats, the SPD, is a very centrist party by the way. So centrist that Merkel is sometimes half-jokingly called a Social Democrat.

[SalmonGod]

That's sad. Now I feel alone on the far left.

You could talk to SalmonGod, he's pretty out there. Vector too, I think, but she rarely talks about general politics.

Honestly, my chief interest is in developing personal ethics. I occasionally pipe in when I think I have something relevant to say or I can see some argument getting out of control, but I'm tired of getting angry on the internet. My general position is that I will diligently develop my empathy and knowledge and then act in line with whatever beliefs result. I don't care for talking points or identities, though I respect that these things can be very important to others--it's just that I see developing my own label as largely irrelevant.

I'm sort of the same.  I rarely get upset anymore.  I pipe in when I recognize that something I think is important is missing from a discussion... which happens to be quite often. 

But I've also had a lot of experience with people actually changing or expanding their perspective as a result of my involvement in internet discussions that I see it as one of the most socially productive things I can do.  Despite popular belief, it really does happen.  People change their minds as a result of internet arguments.  It just doesn't happen right away.  People need time to process ideas and absorb their understanding of them into their self-image, and rarely do discussions carry on long enough for this to happen.

[Angle]

I have my own ideas, which I think would qualify as being pretty far to the left. One of my friends called them "Libertarian Communism" once.

I'm sort of the same.  I rarely get upset anymore.  I pipe in when I recognize that something I think is important is missing from a discussion... which happens to be quite often. 

But I've also had a lot of experience with people actually changing or expanding their perspective as a result of my involvement in internet discussions that I see it as one of the most socially productive things I can do.  Despite popular belief, it really does happen.  People change their minds as a result of internet arguments.  It just doesn't happen right away.  People need time to process ideas and absorb their understanding of them into their self-image, and rarely do discussions carry on long enough for this to happen.

I feel much the same as SalmonGod, in both anger and internet discussions. That's actually why I'm working on my Agora project, I feel it has the potential to do a lot of good.

[Descan]

"Libertarian Communism"

The only reason I'm not a communist is because I dislike control.

The only reason I'm not a libertarian is because I dislike leaving people to go hang.

So I call myself a social democrat.

[Angle]

Well no, Social Democrat is an existing political bloc. My ideas are for widespread changes to the system that I've never seen anyone even suggest.

[ChairmanPoo]

Libertarian has a different meaning in Europe than in the US.

Libertarian communism is a term used most often in reference to either anarchists or anarchism-sympathizing marxists.

[LORD GOAT THE 120524TH]

Who wants to talk about fruit?

[ChairmanPoo]

I like apples

[Vector]

Who wants to not derail the thread?

[TD1]

What, aren't we allowed to talk about the economical viability of Apple?

[misko27]

Apple seems to be strong in general, but I think that they've been losing momentum recently. They aren't in any immediate danger, but the specter of becoming "just another company" and losing the last of the dominance they had. They need to step it up.

[Putnam]

Who wants to not derail the thread?

[misko27]

Who wants to not derail the thread?

Okay okay. I think people gotta be more careful with their language here. I'm reminded of "All Philosophy is semantics". Don't just throw phrases and terms out without explaining first everyone, otherwise we are arguing past each other.