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[smeeprocket]

That stuff all sounds very exciting when you are young and are not yet fully aware of your own mortality. But when you are getting your head smashed in the pavement or are at the wrong end of a gun, noble gestures don't seem to worthwhile anymore.

I've done protesting and even more confrontational stuff, but god, that shit is scary. Nobody will protect you when something goes wrong. I'm not saying I wouldn't be out there protesting the police if I actually lived in an area where those protests were happening. But I'd be scared shitless the entire time,

[Phmcw]

If you're legitimately excited for violence, it's probably going to end up violent.

I somewhat doubt it, exept if they catch the attention of a local neo nazi group, or if they go full retard and attack with very little provocation. The agression of that kind are oppotunistic, not planned, and I don't imagine any bigot willing to confront a group of young men.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

People are really pissed. I guess it's at least a good sign that this doesn't happen so often that we're passive about it. On the other hand the massive amount of threats and bigoted comments on mainstream news sites is the spark that made us react.

In the meantime we got word from the girl that the guy has been identified and it's expected that he's gonna be out o a job and in legal trouble, and tempers seem to be cooling down. It's still happening though, the idea is to show that you can't scare gay people into hiding, beating them up is gonna change nothing and get you arrested.
Plus, a lot of them are artists and musicians and minor internet celebs and could use the publicity

[smeeprocket]

protesting should never be about publicity. >.<

[Antsan]

I think you've got something backwards there. I think protesting is almost always all about publicity (although not for the individuals doing the protesting, you're right there).

[TD1]

I think you've got something backwards there. I think protesting is almost always all about publicity (although not for the individuals doing the protesting, you're right there).

Yea, protests are to get attention to one suffering person, or a group of suffering people.

Shouldn't be for PR or money, though I suspect some are.

[smeeprocket]

I think you've got something backwards there. I think protesting is almost always all about publicity (although not for the individuals doing the protesting, you're right there).

It's about showing solidarity. I suppose you need publicity for it, but yea, making it about self-promotion is the worst way to garner sympathy for your cause. It just looks like you are selling yourselves and don't give a shit about the issues.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

I guess the life of a starving artist is less idealistic and romantic than most people think. Just because you could use the publicity doesn't mean your contribution is less worthy. I find them to be the most reasonable people in the group, the ones who are most aware of the possible outcomes and most concerned with the message they're sending, rather than the kids who are knee-jerking at the injustice or just want to wreck shit.
Of course, they'd all be agreeing with you though. I guess i'm a bit of a cynic. An optimist, non-judgemental cynic.

[smeeprocket]

I guess the life of a starving artist is less idealistic and romantic than most people think. Just because you could use the publicity doesn't mean your contribution is less worthy. I find them to be the most reasonable people in the group, the ones who are most aware of the possible outcomes and most concerned with the message they're sending, rather than the kids who are knee-jerking at the injustice or just want to wreck shit.
Of course, they'd all be agreeing with you though. I guess i'm a bit of a cynic. An optimist, non-judgemental cynic.

It doesn't matter what's going on in your life that is unrelated to the cause, if you use it for self-promotion, it trivializes the cause. You can have all kinds of community events for those things (though tbh, why are people still choosing to be artists? That's like an assured way to not get food on the table. Make that your hobby.)

If you start crowding your message with "also support this dude and this dude and let me tell you about this dude's projects" you won't get the real message across.

I'm not trying to be cold, I'm saying you won't get any support if you don't focus on the cause itself.

[Owlbread]

Oyez, progressives. This kind of thing is the output from the leftists or "progressives" at the moment in Scotland. If anyone is interested have a look - who knows, maybe your state could be organised along these lines one day. It might even give you filthy liberals something to work towards, maybe not.

[Angle]

Is that a joke, or are you genuinely insulting us? I can't tell.

[smeeprocket]

Yea I don't think scotland is going to have any useful advice for american liberals, the culture and the environment in politics is entirely different.

[Angle]

I only barely skimmed a couple pages, but that actually looks pretty good. It might be worth looking at in detail.

[Owlbread]

Is that a joke, or are you genuinely insulting us? I can't tell.

Calling you filthy Liberals was humorous. That said, the political climate here may be very different, but I recommend giving some of the policies at least a look. In any case Bernie Sanders seems to be espousing a lot of the views held by people in our left - it may be closer to home than you think.

I only barely skimmed a couple pages, but that actually looks pretty good. It might be worth looking at in detail.

It'll get better when they start commissioning academic research papers and things from our universities in order to add a bit more intellectual weight and eventually work out a strategy to implement these policies. They've already rustled up a few things like that, held in their library. You could take a look at this paper for instance written by Professor Paul Spicker and Professor Mike Danson, alongside Common Weal Director Robin McAlpine entitled:

"The Case for Universalism
An assessment of the evidence on the effectiveness and efficiency of the universal welfare state"

Interesting stuff.

[smeeprocket]

Is that a joke, or are you genuinely insulting us? I can't tell.

Calling you filthy Liberals was humorous. That said, the political climate here may be very different, but I recommend giving some of the policies at least a look. In any case Bernie Sanders seems to be espousing a lot of the views held by people in our left - it may be closer to home than you think.

I only barely skimmed a couple pages, but that actually looks pretty good. It might be worth looking at in detail.

It'll get better when they start commissioning academic research papers and things from our universities in order to work out a strategy to implement these policies.

Bernie Sanders is a socialist outlier, and Americans get skittish at the mention of the word socialist. It's a hotbutton word the right uses to terrify its base and the moderates have unpleasant feelings when it is used. It's the easiest way to condemn social programs and such.