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[Sheb]

Depends on the implementation I guess, such as what outcomes they measures, etc etc.

[FearfulJesuit]

I don't know- maybe it is a good idea.

The problem with the politics of crime in America is that the tough-on-crime section of the electorate is going to present a real threat to any elected official who tries to take revenge out of the equation. (Yes, I know my avatar is Mr. Tough-on-Crime. I'm more sympathetic to tough-on-crime than some people here, I'm sure, but that's neither here nor there).

If the goal is to get rid of tough-on-crime measures, it's going to be a while before elected officials are able to take steps towards it. However, privately owned prison companies are not elected, and profit is a powerful incentive-and not even necessarily an unethical one if it incentivizes the right stuff.

If the entire nation's prisons were privatized, let's say, and the rule was that "we're only going to pay you for inmate X if he doesn't get another felony charge within five years", I suspect that recidivism would drop much more sharply than the sort of incremental, half-hearted attempts legislators can make to solve the problem. Is it a good idea? Well, I'm somewhat wary of privatizing something that's so necessary and basic in a modern society, but if it works, I'd be willing to look into it.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Or the prisons will cherry-pick the nicest, friendliest inmates they can. In fact I think they already do that where this kinda incentivisation is in effect, and it winds up skewing the numbers to make private prisons look better than they are. (and state prisons worse)

[Baffler]

The simplest fix there would be to simply take away the ability to cherry-pick who they incarcerate. It would probably make it harder to run a profitable prison, but that's a dubious goal if ever I saw one.

[FearfulJesuit]

That's why you privatize every prison in the system.

[Frumple]

... profit motive and incarceration never seems to work, really.

I guess try full privatization providing the consequence for not seeing a nation-wide reduction in both recidivism and overall crime each year is the execution of every manager and owner involved in the industry? And maybe something similar for local stuff, so they can't just shove everything into a small area or something. I think I could get behind that. Maybe up to a minimum level, but... maybe not. I'm pretty okay with putting a bullet into cartel leadership, and they're profiting off crime as well. Maybe you should have to put your life on the line to be allowed to monetize ruined lives.

[Bauglir]

Whatever the case, their income should just flat-out be unrelated to the number of prisoners they have. Cause that's obviously some twisted incentivization there.

[i2amroy]

If it's results based (like FJ suggested) then more (successfully treated) prisoners leading to more pay seems like it would be fine to me. And that would get around the problem of each prison wanting to take the least number of prisoners if it had no effect on their pay as well.

[SalmonGod]

You'd have to be wary of prison businesses that develop relations with police and judges.  They could just as easily sabotage prosecutions against guilty people to help with recidivism statistics as much as they currently favor prosecutions against innocent people to help prisons stay populated.

[Bauglir]

You'd have to be wary of prison businesses that develop relations with police and judges.  They could just as easily sabotage prosecutions against guilty people to help with recidivism statistics as much as they currently favor prosecutions against innocent people to help prisons stay populated.

Yup. Never underestimate the ingenuity of the greedy.

[lemon10]

You'd have to be wary of prison businesses that develop relations with police and judges.  They could just as easily sabotage prosecutions against guilty people to help with recidivism statistics as much as they currently favor prosecutions against innocent people to help prisons stay populated.

Yeah, but having guilty people go free is better in my opinion then having innocent people go to jail.

[Angle]

Yes... But we could skip the whole thing and just axe the privatized prisons.

[Baffler]

Indeed. But that can't happen right away, we need to ease into it or the industry's very powerful lobby will push back. They have to already be dying when they're finished off. And if they do society some good on the way out then good for them. They aren't inherently bad or something, they've just been pushed in a bad direction.

[SalmonGod]

You'd have to be wary of prison businesses that develop relations with police and judges.  They could just as easily sabotage prosecutions against guilty people to help with recidivism statistics as much as they currently favor prosecutions against innocent people to help prisons stay populated.

Yeah, but having guilty people go free is better in my opinion then having innocent people go to jail.

I agree.  But the whole point is you're undermining the purpose of the institution either way.

They aren't inherently bad or something, they've just been pushed in a bad direction.

I think the typical argument by those opposed to privatization of the justice system, including myself, is that using profit as an incentive in any fashion is likely to push it in a bad direction.  It's more profitable to minimally invest in cheating the metrics than it is to invest a great deal more in operating in good faith to create genuine progress.  And as long as profit is the fundamental motivator, those at the highest levels of decision-making (also held the most responsible for maximizing profitability) will see to it that any such shortcuts available are taken advantage of.

[Baffler]

Oh, I agree. I personally think "prison industry" should eventually be damn near an oxymoron, but this process needs to be very gradual. If anything moves too fast it'll probably be dead in committee before it ever goes to a vote.

Edit: To clarify, I think we need to use Salami Tactics to succeed.