Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[USEC_OFFICER]

He did get remove his avatar, signature and personal text from his account though. After saying that he should have left a long time ago. Those two events do feel kinda interrelated, don't you think?

[Angle]

Phmcw: No offense, but are you a troll? Cause  remember arguing with you about sexism, and the argument you put forth was people were subject t racism, therefore sexism wasn't an issue. now you seem to be arguing that people are subject to classism, therefore racism isn't an issue. You also gave up arguing with me when it became evident I wouldn't get angry with you, while you seem much more invested here- perhaps because GlyphGryph is giving you what you want? Just a hypothesis.

[XXSockXX]

Phmcw: No offense, but are you a troll? Cause  remember arguing with you about sexism, and the argument you put forth was people were subject t racism, therefore sexism wasn't an issue. now you seem to be arguing that people are subject to classism, therefore racism isn't an issue.

Eh, I don't know if I agree with Phmcw on everything he says, but he's got a point in that the American point of view on race issues is quite different in some regards to the European one, so I'd say certainly no trolling there.

[Angle]

The point is that when arguing with me, he thought that racism WAS a issue. Now he doesn't? Seems suspicious. Yes, he could have just changed his views, but with the other evidence presented, I find it questionable.

[XXSockXX]

Seems more like a contrarian thing than trolling to me, but then I have not followed the discussion that closely.

[Phmcw]

The point is that when arguing with me, he thought that racism WAS a issue. Now he doesn't? Seems suspicious. Yes, he could have just changed his views, but with the other evidence presented, I find it questionable.

I said this :

Well even that is demonstrably false : power and right were and stlll are divided by birthrights, race, wealth, gender... depending on the place, and there is no way in hell to argue that a black slave man in the south has more right than a white woman. And wether or not he was privilieged compeared to a black woman is debatable, but that debate would be mostly pointless. The peoples arguing about those things seems unaware that they are part of the intelligencia of the most powerfull nation on earth.

I'm pretty sure I never said that racism has never been a problem in the history of US. Actually I said two times that racism seems to be a problem in the US.

I'm just skeptical that "direct racism" (as pure hate of black peoples) is as huge a problem as some make it out to be, because I cannot see how it can be possible given the current state of americain society and the fact that in Europe it is often overblown. I may be wrong of course but  it just doesn't compute.

[Bauglir]

It doesn't take the form of "I hate black people so I'll arrest/fire/etc this one." It takes the form of "This guy's black so he's likelier to be a criminal/lazy/etc, so I'd better check to be sure." It doesn't sound as nefarious on the surface (after all, you're still checking, right?), which is why it can happen, but the increased scrutiny is a problem when nobody's perfect and so you can often find evidence for whatever stereotype you're expecting, and this reinforces the stereotype. Not to mention the degree to which having this as a cultural trend creates objectively verifiable differences, so you wind up with situations where black people really are likelier to be criminals, but it's because they're likelier to have fewer alternatives - and people somehow conclude that the stereotype is therefore "justified". The accuracy of statistical correlations has never been the key flaw in racism, but it sure sounds good when racists need a cover.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well, yes. Old-school, direct and claimant racism is well and truly out of vogue. Unfortunately, this only means that we are left with the secondary, racism masquerading as rationality and logic. It is better in that it rears its head less powerfully, but it is more insidious because it mimics the form of something desirable.

[Descan]

And I think it's been said that "direct racism" isn't, hasn't, and will not be the main, systemic problem. Not to say that I don't think there aren't actually-white-supremacist-style racists in the judiciary or the police force, but they're not what we're saying is the issue.

What is the issue is things like... In American society, black people, black men, come across as threatening. So in a situation where they have a gun, or there's a domestic dispute, or they're on trial, where looks and perspectives are everything or near everything, a police officer will feel more threatened by a black man, or a jury will not cut them as much a slack as they would a white man.

For example, a black man coming in to a store or restaurant with a open-carry license and a long rifle slung across his back will almost certainly have the cops called on him. A white man coming  in to the same store with a rifle and an open carry license, will be viewed as a nuisance or a gun-nut, but unless he threatens people, the cops won't be called.

Edit: The others said as much, and better, than this.

[Angle]

I will also point out, on the occasions when direct racism rears it's head, the more insidious kind will help protect it-such as on the occasions when a police officer kills a young black man in cold blood for no reason.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Oi, anyone know of a big net neutrality effort or anything? I am not enamored by fast-lane bullshit.

[GavJ]

Oi, anyone know of a big net neutrality effort or anything? I am not enamored by fast-lane bullshit.

IIRC the deadline for FCC comments is, like, tonight, at midnight in some timezone in the US or other? Double check, but if you haven't already, please write out a personalized argument to them about why you are not enamored.

[Morrigi]

I will also point out, on the occasions when direct racism rears it's head, the more insidious kind will help protect it-such as on the occasions when a police officer kills a young black man in cold blood for no reason.

Oh boy, here we go.

[Blargityblarg]

I will also point out, on the occasions when direct racism rears it's head, the more insidious kind will help protect it-such as on the occasions when a police officer kills a young black man in cold blood for no reason.

Oh boy, here we go.

Speak of the devil.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Oi, anyone know of a big net neutrality effort or anything? I am not enamored by fast-lane bullshit.

IIRC the deadline for FCC comments is, like, tonight, at midnight in some timezone in the US or other? Double check, but if you haven't already, please write out a personalized argument to them about why you are not enamored.

Ah, I think I already submitted one. I see it's up to ~500k signatures, so that's cool.

But was kinda hoping there were more, as they don't seem phased by that one in particular.