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[Graknorke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSsBYO1oNI

Chris Hayes Spoofs White Power Structure Has No Clue How To Stop Culture Of White On White Violence

So the thing that's being satirised here is a thing that really exists?

[Phmcw]

Hmmm... the problem is: we do have no clues on how stop this predominantly white white collar crime that is destroying America and Europe. Putting Obama in charge doesn't seems to help much though, lol.

[GlyphGryph]

So the thing that's being satirised here is a thing that really exists?

It's basically word for word from... well, a whole bunch of recent arguments on fox and various pundit shows. Yes, this is exactly the way the "news" talks about race in America. It's also the way individuals do - the same sort of arguments spring up endlessly on blogs and facebook posts and in rants from the guy at the bar.

It's how they try to argue that racism is "not a problem".

[Phmcw]

Well when I see a very well off white politician, I cannot help but wonder if he's corrupt. Am I anti white racist?

[LordSlowpoke]

can't help but say yes, if only because i have no bloody idea why you say a non-white well off politician wouldn't be corrupt, or any politician at all

it's a sad reality that we must suspect them of being a literal reincarnation of hitler all the time or else they'll slip and lose the minor amount of fucks they had about their constituency

[Phmcw]

can't help but say yes, if only because i have no bloody idea why you say a non-white well off politician wouldn't be corrupt, or any politician at all

it's a sad reality that we must suspect them of being a literal reincarnation of hitler all the time or else they'll slip and lose the minor amount of fucks they had about their constituency

It's no secret that white are overrepresented, and I will be a bit less supicious of someone that come from a poorer background that of someone that is born into politics.

And I have my own idea on how we should remind them that not giving fuck about their constituency is not an option. It involve rope.

[GlyphGryph]

Well when I see a very well off white politician, I cannot help but wonder if he's corrupt. Am I anti white racist?

At the very least it means you're inclined towards stereotyping and prejudice, so... probably! If you were to limit it to powerful groups and individuals it wouldn't be so bad, as your prejudice is unlikely to lead to a situation where they are oppressed, you have no particular power over them nor are you supporting a system that does. If it's racism, it's the toothless kind.

However, generally people don't limit themselves to being prejudiced against and stereotyping one particular group, and especially they don't limit themselves to groups that have more than they do. Not enough psychological reward, and once those patterns are established there are much more lucrative subjects. Maybe it's not black people, but you might have some legit toothy racism against muslims or gypsies or the Dutch, at which point it would become "yeah, you are definitely racists".

[LordSlowpoke]

can't help but say yes, if only because i have no bloody idea why you say a non-white well off politician wouldn't be corrupt, or any politician at all

it's a sad reality that we must suspect them of being a literal reincarnation of hitler all the time or else they'll slip and lose the minor amount of fucks they had about their constituency

It's no secret that white are overrepresented, and I will be a bit less supicious of someone that come from a poorer background that of someone that is born into politics.

And I have my own idea on how we should remind them that not giving fuck about their constituency is not an option. It involve rope.

...so you're claiming as an absolute that non-white politicians come from poorer backgrounds than white ones?

[Phmcw]

...so you're claiming as an absolute that non-white politicians come from poorer backgrounds than white ones?

There are no absolute. But generally speaking it's the case, yes.

Well when I see a very well off white politician, I cannot help but wonder if he's corrupt. Am I anti white racist?

At the very least it means you're inclined towards stereotyping and prejudice, so... probably! If you were to limit it to powerful groups and individuals it wouldn't be so bad, as your prejudice is unlikely to lead to a situation where they are oppressed, you have no particular power over them nor are you supporting a system that does. If it's racism, it's the toothless kind.

All I need to oppress someone is a length of lead pipe and a few like-minded peoples. And privilieged groups routinely turn into oppressed ones : see Rowandian Hutus, wealthy russian Farmers, French nobility, Croatians,...
I often seee that kind of argument coming from the internet and I don't know if it's because America is so inegalitarian that being part of a "privilegied group" is systematically an asset, or because the peoples that say that are part of the privilieged part of thee privilieged group (IE sheltered rich).

However, generally people don't limit themselves to being prejudiced against and stereotyping one particular group, and especially they don't limit themselves to groups that have more than they do.

It's funny because this describe exactly the left I don't like : they are deeply prejudiced against the groups in power. The amount of prejudice and strawmanning I see coming from the Americain left is only rivaled by the one coming from the Americain right.

[GlyphGryph]

All I need to oppress someone is a length of lead pipe and a few like-minded peoples.

No, you need more than that. You need an environment that let's you get away with it for an extended period of time. And we're not talking about individual oppression anyway, but oppression of entire groups of people in environments that support that oppression. When people talk about individual oppression they generally use the word abuse or subjugation. And while it's still bad, it's a different kind of bad, and getting rid of every instance of one wouldn't help with the other. And talking about racism isn't even the same as talking about oppression - there's plenty of disgusting racist stuff that isn't actually oppression but is still bad.

And privilieged groups routinely turn into oppressed ones : see Rowandian Hutus, wealthy russian Farmers, French nobility, Croatians,...

Of course. Only racists or idiots would think otherwise. Oppressed groups are just as human as their oppressors, and operate under the same human shortcomings.

I often seee that kind of argument coming from the internet and I don't know if it's because America is so inegalitarian that being part of a "privilegied group" is systematically an asset, or because the peoples that say that are part of the privilieged part of thee privilieged group (IE sheltered rich).

I don't know what you're saying here in the last part. But yes, being part of a privileged group is an asset. That is what makes it a privileged group. They get privileges. Privileges are assets. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Are you disagreeing with this? Because there's nowhere where this is not true. Hell, it's essentially a truism. When it's not systemically an asset, it's not a privileged group, and in the US - yes, being white is a privileged group.

However, generally people don't limit themselves to being prejudiced against and stereotyping one particular group, and especially they don't limit themselves to groups that have more than they do.

It's funny because this describe exactly the left I don't like : they are deeply prejudiced against the groups in power. The amount of prejudice and strawmanning I see coming from the Americain left is only rivaled by the one coming from the Americain right.

Care to provide a shred of evidence for this as being symptomatic of the American left? Also, are you seriously saying this while accusing your targets of strawmanning? That takes some cajones, buddy.

Also, what exactly is your end game here?
Do you think that racism is a serious problem in the United States and other countries? Yes/No?
If yes, what do you think should be done about it? If no, why not?

You opened with

Hmmm... the problem is: we do have no clues on how stop this predominantly white white collar crime that is destroying America and Europe. Putting Obama in charge doesn't seems to help much though, lol.

But what are you even trying to say here? What's your point? What are you actually trying to argue?

Did... did you even watch the thing I linked? Did you understand what you were seeing? Did you listen to what was said at the end? In what way was the responsive you gave a productive addition to the conversation?

[Phmcw]

And we're not talking about individual oppression anyway, but oppression of entire groups of people in environments that support that oppression. When people talk about individual oppression they generally use the word abuse or subjugation.

Those distinction are largely arbitrary : a lot of Jews a are leaving France because they suffer violence from muslims who are clearly not privilieged.

being part of a privileged group is an asset. That is what makes it a privileged group.

That's just a circular reasoning.

Care to provide a shred of evidence for this as being symptomatic of the American left?

Actually yes : you posted a lot of them. Internet is ripe with peoples posting the worst examples of their opponent and saying it's the norm.

Do you think that racism is a serious problem in the United States and other countries? Yes/No?
If yes, what do you think should be done about it? If no, why not?

I think racism is judging peoples by their race, and that Americain culture is full of it. Actually, I found a lot of americain unable to grasp that judging a culture and a race isn't the same thing and that the two aren't linked. There is no "white culture" and there is no "black culture". Because skin color isn't a culture. Your culture isn't mine, and we're both white and my girlfriend culture and mine are the same. Yet she isn't white.

But I don't think it's a big issue in Belgium, because we're simply not used to do that. There can be a lot of prejudice and stupidity, but it's usually because peoples are unable to see that they share the problems they denounce in others (IE ranting about "poor peoples" criminality while turning a blind eye when they do it).

You video is interesting because I actually agree that upper class predominantly white culture have a problem with honesty. I do actually agree with this point. I don't hold white peoples responsible for it, just like I don't hold north africain migrants responsible for the predominantly north africain crimintality in Belgium.

[GlyphGryph]

being part of a privileged group is an asset. That is what makes it a privileged group.

That's just a circular reasoning.

dude.

I mean seriously, dude.

Knowing what a word means is not circular reasoning.

You are arguing the equivalent of saying not every degree holder holds a degree, or not ever musician plays music, or not every politician is involved in politics.

My countering that "having this property is required for membership in this group" is not circular reasoning, it's how language works.

If being a part of a privileged group doesn't grant you any privileges, it is either not a privileged group or you are not part of it! That's what the word means!

Care to provide a shred of evidence for this as being symptomatic of the American left?

Actually yes : you posted a lot of them. Internet is ripe with peoples posting the worst examples of their opponent and saying it's the norm.

Wow, sounds like it should be easy for you to provide an example then.

Also, wow, major evasion there.
Do you think that racism is a serious problem in the United States and other countries? Yes/No?

Also, every single point in the video was intentionally spurious and garbage, which they explicitly say at the end. If you agree with anything from the video, that should be a warning sign that maybe you're letting your prejudices get out of hand.

[Phmcw]

Also, every single point in the video was intentionally spurious and garbage, which they explicitly say at the end. If you agree with anything from the video, that should be a warning sign that maybe you're letting your prejudices get out of hand.

Well no. They were forcing the traits, but they said things that were atually thruths.

My countering that "having this property is required for membership in this group" is not circular reasoning, it's how language works.

Well then I deny that white are a privilieged groups and I say that thinking otherwise is actually racist.

Therfore I can answer your next question :

Do you think that racism is a serious problem in the United States ? Yes/No?

Yes, across your whole political spectrum because your concepts themselves are racist.

As for the countries it depend on the countries. And I do NOT equal xenophobia, who is quite widespread, with racism.

[Frumple]

Well then I deny that white are a privilieged groups

Then, in regards to the US, you'd be denying flat statistical fact. You can look at the demographic makeup of pretty much every position of power in the states, in regards to pretty much the entire legal system from enforcement to legislation, in regards to income, wealth, health -- there's just this whole massively huge list of ways in which white individuals are disproportionately favored in the USA. White citizens of the USA are a quite blatantly privileged group of individuals.

[GlyphGryph]

Well then I deny that white are a privilieged groups and I say that thinking otherwise is actually racist.

So, we have:
"[Says incredibly racist thing] and anyone who thinks otherwise is the REAL racist!"

We have:
Denying that racism is actually a problem, and arguing that the real problem is talking about racism.

We have:
Denying white privilege despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary/

We have:
Stated belief in racist rhetoric, full support for embracing harmful stereotypes.

We have:
Arguing that rich and powerful rights are the real victims of oppression.

You may not be racist, but you manage to pull off a really good defender of racism.