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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1285719 times)

kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8070 on: February 14, 2014, 10:13:56 am »

You're conflating both hypothetical scenarios; I wouldn't be likely to hit on someone in the middle of a night on a dark street. A public gathering of some sort though? It's possible.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

XXSockXX

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8071 on: February 14, 2014, 10:17:43 am »

Of course, but that's something different altogether. Sheb particularly asked for thougths on the lonely-street-at-night scenario.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8072 on: February 14, 2014, 10:19:06 am »

He did. I answered that one and I posed another one :P
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8073 on: February 14, 2014, 10:42:21 am »

Heh, why would you make yourself look non-threatening? Just asking to get mugged.

Max White

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8074 on: February 14, 2014, 10:43:36 am »

There's something I wanted to talk about. Recently we had a mini-controversy around here after a feminists posted a list of advice to men to make women feel safer. Now, amongst them was "When I'm walking behind a woman at night, I cross the street to give her a wide berth." Now, my first reaction was "Fuck that, I'm already doing my part by not raping anyone, thank you very much". But she was raising some interesting point about the fact that women are brought up in the fear of being raped by strangers (never mind that rapist are more often than not people you know).

So yeah, I'd like the forum's opinion on this.
You know I go to the gym regularly, and while there I'm in a place with other guys, many of whom are significantly bigger and stronger than I, and while I may not know their political views I'm sure considering the number of other people it is statistically likely a few, maybe one or two of them are homophobic, and strong enough to beat the living shit out of me if they chose.
Would it be reasonable for me to want other men there to actively avoid me just to make me feel more secure? No, that would be total bullshit, most of them are really nice people. I'm not going to make such silly demands on people who have done nothing wrong just because there are a few bad apples in the world.
If a woman feels uncomfortable walking near me at night, she can cross the damn road. I refuse to get to the back of the bus.


Anyway, the fact of the matter is that while the vast majority of people aren't going to want to beat me up, some will. I haven't been bought up in fear, it is just a rational concern. In the same way any women that is slightly worried when a guy walks behind her at night has rational reason to do so as sexual assault is a real thing that actually happens. Once you demand that all guys cross the road just for her sense of safety, not actual safety as the vast majority of these guys are fine, but just the feeling of being safe, you are getting unreasonable.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8075 on: February 14, 2014, 10:47:16 am »

Well, if we're talking about rational fears, then women should be more wary of their friends and family than random people on the street, as it is the former that makes up the majority of sexual assaults.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8076 on: February 14, 2014, 10:48:11 am »

Well, if we're talking about rational fears, then women should be more wary of their friends and family than random people on the street, as it is the former that makes up the majority of sexual assaults.
And it is the latter that will mug them.

XXSockXX

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8077 on: February 14, 2014, 11:24:15 am »

Heh, why would you make yourself look non-threatening? Just asking to get mugged.
I usually try to appear somewhat threatening and it seems to work, as I never got mugged. Maybe I was just lucky.

I did notice however that women tend to call someone to tell them they're at the train station or something like that when they encounter me alone at night, which - combined with what female friends tell me - has made me a bit more aware in that regard. I'm paranoid in reverse too, I always offer to accompany female friends to their cars and have my girlfriend call or text me when she's out alone.
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Bauglir

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8078 on: February 14, 2014, 11:37:33 am »

Eh. Are you obligated to cross to the other side of the street? No, probably not. Can it be a nice thing you do to make somebody else's day better? I don't really think this is a case where we ought to be codifying principles of behavior to be enforced, but it does seem like a perspective worth being aware of so you can properly demonstrate courtesy to people who might hold it (which seems like a reasonably large number of people).
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Graknorke

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8079 on: February 14, 2014, 12:23:32 pm »

But if you go out of your way to appear less threatening it just makes you more sinister.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8080 on: February 14, 2014, 12:35:54 pm »

If you go out of your way to cross the street, it just makes it look like you need to be on that side of the street.
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XXSockXX

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8081 on: February 14, 2014, 12:41:33 pm »

But if you go out of your way to appear less threatening it just makes you more sinister.
Oh, come on. How is a guy with a wide grin cradling a cute invisible teddy bear sinister?  :P

If you go out of your way to cross the street, it just makes it look like you need to be on that side of the street.
Which is indeed a problem if you'd have to cross back later. In that case I'd just walk faster.
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smirk

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8082 on: February 14, 2014, 12:46:35 pm »

In that case I'd just walk faster.
Not such a good idea. If the woman ahead of you is already freaked by your presence, what's she gonna think when she hears your footsteps speed up? Recipe for a macing, is that.
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When i think of toady i think of a toad hopping arround on a keyboard
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he should stay out of the light it will dry out his skin
his moist amphibian skin
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Sheb

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8083 on: February 14, 2014, 12:48:32 pm »

Good mace is illegal here then. :p
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XXSockXX

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #8084 on: February 14, 2014, 12:51:38 pm »

In that case I'd just walk faster.
Not such a good idea. If the woman ahead of you is already freaked by your presence, what's she gonna think when she hears your footsteps speed up? Recipe for a macing, is that.
Right, but that means just one awkward moment till you passed by. Better than an entire walk with someone walking behind you I think. But yeah, essentially you're bound to freak people out in some way.
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