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[GlyphGryph]

if the legal resources were unavailable or inadequate i'd also consider alternative means i'll give you this much but after acknowledging he's been jailed you won't get anywhere without said legal system helping you

He's in jail for something completely unrelated and we ALL lose for him being in jail for that. Even the person he tormented says he shouldn't be in jail (for the thing he's in jail for).

The legal system IS unavailable and inadequate. He did NOT go to jail for his campaign to ruin someones life. He went to jail because he pissed off the people who run AT&T.

If the only legal protection is "hope he does something stupid to someone who isn't as helpless and me and can get revenge on him regardless of the law", that... err, yeah, I'm gonna say that's 'inadequate'.

[LordSlowpoke]

you know i did acknowledge right there i have no idea what the original stuff is so if you could pm me the gist of it or just put it here it would be great

i assumed this was a matter of abuse of the physical/financial kind mostly so that's what i were working off, in retrospect to do so wasn't the best idea but saying "violence is not the best answer" is always appropriate

[GlyphGryph]

Violence is never good, but it is sometimes a necessary evil.

Hell, or our entire legal and enforcement system is based on either this principal or outright 'violence is GOOD under certain circumstances' thinking. Honestly I prefer the necessary evil acknowledgement that even doing a bad thing for good reasons doesn't change the fact that you are doing a bad thing.

Violence often is, unfortunately, the best answer.

[MonkeyHead]

Best answer does not make it a good one - simply the least bad.

[Leafsnail]

Can we try and take this debate back to this specific case, firstly.  Are you advocating beating the shit out of internet trolls or what?

[SalmonGod]

I'm on the fence on the whole vaccination thing.  While it's obviously a public health concern and the anti-vaccers are basing their behavior on refuted evidence and bad priorities, their concern does align with some history that deserves heeding.  The government has intentionally administered harmful or experimental substances to unwitting and unwilling citizens in the past, and has done so in alliance with pharmaceutical companies.  Given the state of politics today, I see no reason to believe that this could not happen again or is not already happening.  Mandatory vaccinations would be about the most ideal opportunity for such abuses imaginable.

I'm definitely not one who buys into the disproven crap about vaccinations causing autism and stuff like that.  I have no reason to believe they are currently abused.  However, as much as I would like to trust authorities to use these tools exclusively for the benefit of public health, I simply can't.  I don't prevent my children from getting their essential immunizations or anything / the stuff that you guys are talking about.  But I don't bother with others such as the annual flu vaccine.

*hides*

[Askot Bokbondeler]

I'm on the fence on the whole vaccination thing.  While it's obviously a public health concern and the anti-vaccers are basing their behavior on refuted evidence and bad priorities, their concern does align with some history that deserves heeding.  The government has intentionally administered harmful or experimental substances to unwitting and unwilling citizens in the past, and has done so in alliance with pharmaceutical companies.  Given the state of politics today, I see no reason to believe that this could not happen again or is not already happening.  Mandatory vaccinations would be about the most ideal opportunity for such abuses imaginable.

I'm definitely not one who buys into the disproven crap about vaccinations causing autism and stuff like that.  I have no reason to believe they are currently abused.  However, as much as I would like to trust authorities to use these tools exclusively for the benefit of public health, I simply can't.  I don't prevent my children from getting their essential immunizations or anything / the stuff that you guys are talking about.  But I don't bother with others such as the annual flu vaccine.

*hides*

those are good points

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm on the fence on the whole vaccination thing.  While it's obviously a public health concern and the anti-vaccers are basing their behavior on refuted evidence and bad priorities, their concern does align with some history that deserves heeding.  The government has intentionally administered harmful or experimental substances to unwitting and unwilling citizens in the past, and has done so in alliance with pharmaceutical companies.  Given the state of politics today, I see no reason to believe that this could not happen again or is not already happening.  Mandatory vaccinations would be about the most ideal opportunity for such abuses imaginable.

I'm definitely not one who buys into the disproven crap about vaccinations causing autism and stuff like that.  I have no reason to believe they are currently abused.  However, as much as I would like to trust authorities to use these tools exclusively for the benefit of public health, I simply can't.  I don't prevent my children from getting their essential immunizations or anything / the stuff that you guys are talking about.  But I don't bother with others such as the annual flu vaccine.

*hides*

There is no incentive for them to do that, at least not with vaccines. Pharmaceutical companies make bank off of effective vaccines, and would suffer great profit loss if they ever did something like that.

You should not be risking your children's livelihoods by ignoring available medical treatments. Children can and have died of influenza, which kills ~50,000 people in the United States every year. I myself remember my case of it when I was a young child vividly because of how horrific it was.

Your children aren't very likely to ever encounter a polio virus, much less actually be infected, but I'm sure you got them that vaccine.

In the end, all vaccines are essential vaccines, and it is not just a person's prerogative but their responsibility to themselves and those around them to be vaccinated.

[Dutchling]

I thought the flu vaccine is only for senile old people.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

In Europe it is generally only recommended for the elderly, but in the US it is recommended for everybody (which I think is a far sounder policy).

[Vector]

Also people like me, who are predisposed to catching pneumonia with any sort of respiratory infection.

There is a reason not to just vaccinate vaccinate vaccinate, which is that it is generally not good to have your immune system running around with no practice and with nothing to do.  However, we're not living in a mystery fantasy land where we've got vaccines against everything, and vaccines aren't 100%, etc.

[10ebbor10]

Doesn't vaccination consist of injecting weakened/dead specimens into the bloodstream, thereby triggering the same immune reaction as happens during an actual infection.

Here's some interesting stuff. Nuclear weaponry in Europe is being updated. (Dutch article). Not all that informative.

Point is, the Nuclear weaponry in Europe (also Belgium) is gradually being exchanged for B-61 warheads.

[Vector]

Is it really exactly the same, though?

That's an honest question.  I know next to nothing about immunology.

[10ebbor10]

Depends on the type of vaccine, I believe.

[Vector]

Depends on the type of vaccine, I believe.

Right.  Then that was the point I was trying to make--there's conceivably a point at which too many vaccines -> immune system doesn't get enough training, which should be taken into account even if we aren't there yet.