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[Descan]

Employees should train, Universities should educate.


"We're at the point where we don't need retailers. Retailers need us."

[Vector]

Bayer suing Europe over their ban on its pesticides.

[GlyphGryph]

Employees should train, Universities should educate.

I trust nothing about this site. Everything about it set off alarm bells at first glance, reading the article set off more, and reading some of the other articles set off even more. It does not seem honest, anyway - or at the least like it has some willingness to play loose with the facts to push... whatever agenda it is pushing. I honestly don't know.

[Descan]

... It's an opinion piece, Glyph.

[GlyphGryph]

It's not just about it being an opinion piece. I understand it's an opinion piece. It's the sort of... language they use. It's not a good opinion piece, is the thing.

[Descan]

Like what~?

[Pnx]

This is sort of my opinion as well. I mean I feel they could've told the whole truth, which is that while the chemicals produced by Bayer are likely not solely responsible for the bee issues we're having. But that they would probably not be as bad as they are without them, and that Bayer covered up the negative effects on bees that were confirmed to be there during the development process.

Also, the language usage is sensationalist in a variety of ways, especially the use of the word "sued". While it's technically accurate (it means to initiate an appeal or other legal action), most people will hear it and believe they're trying to extract money from the EU, whereas what they're actually doing is just trying to overturn the ban. I really don't like that kind of sensationalist language.
Though that said, I do wish they weren't trying to overturn the ban.

[Descan]

This is sort of my opinion as well. I mean I feel they could've told the whole truth, which is that while the chemicals produced by Bayer are likely not solely responsible for the bee issues we're having. But that they would probably not be as bad as they are without them, and that Bayer covered up the negative effects on bees that were confirmed to be there during the development process.

Also, the language usage is sensationalist in a variety of ways, especially the use of the word "sued". While it's technically accurate (it means to initiate an appeal or other legal action), most people will hear it and believe they're trying to extract money from the EU, whereas what they're actually doing is just trying to overturn the ban. I really don't like that kind of sensationalist language.
Though that said, I do wish they weren't trying to overturn the ban.

We glossed over Vector's and were talking about the article about universities (Glyph even quoted me).

At any rate, I linked it more for the idea than saying "aw man this is so well written!".

But yes, that petition is very sensationalist. Though I do try and look past that to see the idea, and "overturning the ban on bee-killing pesticides" is a very bad idea, opposing that is a very good one.

[Pnx]

Ah, sorry, I was half asleep had just finished going over the three articles and mistakenly thought he was responding to the wrong one.

I'm really not so sure what to think of that one. I suppose I'm generally in favour of a general education.

[freeformschooler]

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/21/download-code-penny-arcade-needs-to-fix-its-krahulik-problem/?__lsa=bc54-7be8
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/09/penny-arcade-expo-dickwolves/
http://elizabethsampat.com/quit-fucking-going-to-pax-already-what-is-wrong-with-you/

ಠ_ಠ

ಠ_ಠ

So basically, I didn't know this was going on at all. As one of my favorite comic strips (well, most of the time), it's a bit jarring. No, not "the creators are Human, whooooaaaaa." It's more: their community in and out of PAX supports all kinds of inclusion. It's a community for NERDS, come ON. A convention for MtG players, PC gamers, and all other kinds of probably-socially-inept, possible-outcast people to get together and have some fun. Can't the owners, of all people, see what's wrong with picking out specific groups of outcasts and waving their fingers, nya-nya-nya? No?

[LordSlowpoke]

some of these days i would poke what you just posted with a stick

this is not one of these days

* LordSlowpoke umequips the Stick of Poking +3

[Graknorke]

I don't get it.
People are upset because of rape jokes? Is that what's going on? I red two of those and I have no idea what is actually the problem.

EDIT: Oh, the problem is that they didn't apologise. I got it.
I still don't get how that relates to hat ffs said though.

[freeformschooler]

I don't get it.
People are upset because of rape jokes? Is that what's going on? I red two of those and I have no idea what is actually the problem.

That was in 2010 and only an indication of the larger problem. A fairly robust timeline can be found here, but the gist of it is:

-A somewhat offensive "the joke is rape, lol" comic is posted to PA some point in 2010
-This would maaaybe be fine if everyone ignored it, but people who found it offensive (rape/SA survivors?) pointed that out
-THIS WOULD ALSO BE FINE, say what you want and all that, but then the creators of the comic (mostly Krahulik) went on to antagonize the people who originally spoke out against it in many ways: a comic strip literally mocking them (and missing the point), official merchandise mocking them, and endless hateful Phil Fish-esque tweets toward the comic's fanbase
-A bunch of other things also happen: a security guard gets sexually assaulted at PA and the owners try to cover it up, Krahulik posts a ton of nasty stuff toward whatever LGBT crowd member he's feeling hateful toward that day, the hateful merchandise is removed from the PA store and the creators speak out against its removal

It doesn't stop hapening. Basically, my point is: if you're going to make a community all about including geeks/dweebs/nerds/other social outcasts and allowing them to have a safe place where they can have fun, why the fuck would you go WAY OUT OF YOUR WAY to step all over SA survivors, transgirls and other specific subgroups of people for a period of nearly three years? It just seems hypocritical.

[kaijyuu]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It doesn't stop hapening. Basically, my point is: if you're going to make a community all about including geeks/dweebs/nerds/other social outcasts and allowing them to have a safe place where they can have fun, why the fuck would you go WAY OUT OF YOUR WAY to step all over SA survivors, transgirls and other specific subgroups of people for a period of nearly three years? It just seems hypocritical.

I'm immediately very skeptical of where you're getting your information because it seems they didn't mention how mr Krahulik basically begged for forgiveness about the trans thing, not to mention donating $20,000.



EDIT: If we wanna talk about this subject without the PA focus: I feel jokes along these lines are acceptable in the same way jokes about murder and violence are acceptable. Reprehensible acts that should never be performed in real life, and there are people for whom it's courteous to not mention around for PTSD reasons, but let's not put a blanket censor on something just because it's bad.

[freeformschooler]

It doesn't stop hapening. Basically, my point is: if you're going to make a community all about including geeks/dweebs/nerds/other social outcasts and allowing them to have a safe place where they can have fun, why the fuck would you go WAY OUT OF YOUR WAY to step all over SA survivors, transgirls and other specific subgroups of people for a period of nearly three years? It just seems hypocritical.

I'm immediately very skeptical of where you're getting your information because it seems they didn't mention how mr Krahulik basically begged for forgiveness about the trans thing, not to mention donating $20,000.

Yes it does. I already linked:

http://elizabethsampat.com/quit-fucking-going-to-pax-already-what-is-wrong-with-you/

Mike publicly denies the gender identities of trans men and women, doubles down with bullying, and is eventually cowed into making a donation to a non-trans-specific, but otherwise worthwhile charity.

The recently flurry of blog posts was due to the creators dredging the whole thing up again (at least the rape apologist part) on stage at the most recent PAX. It's like Mike can't let the freaking thing rest. Is it a publicity thing? Their fans sure seem to appreciate it

But then Krahulik got up on stage at the recent PAX Prime and admitted that he regretted pulling dickwolf merchandise from the Penny Arcade store. And he was applauded.

Well, fuck that.

I realize this isn't a new thing. "Oh, the people who were offending by this are just overreacting! Hahaha!" Probably they were. But this has exploded from a simple tiny thing to a full-on CAD-esque campaign on people speaking out against the blatant sexism present in the PA community. It has nothing or little to do with a comic. It's about harassing people just for speaking out. Maybe, to the people involved, it's like the kind of Anti-tumblr SJW backlash that happened with MSPA for a while. No, it's not. This is not a moral cause. It is just immaturity.