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[Leafsnail]

1. Preventing people " Playing up" homosexuality as more than it is: A genetic abnormality. A lot of people seem to think it's some wonder ability that turns you into a great friend, intelligent person and the greatest parent ever.

Tell us more about homosexual propaganda, please.

[MonkeyHead]

I was going to wade in with a long post regarding the current Russia/homosexualty debate, but it would just fan the flames. Instead I shall calm myself down by using the "report to moderator" button instead on some things I find objectionable rather than try and argue with people.

[Max White]

I'm going to be honest with you Monkey, I'm not sure what posts you are reporting... I mean the thread is moving pretty fast, but things don't seem personal to the point of censorship. Sure there are what I would think of as unsavory views, but that is kind of expected in a 'Progressive Discussion Thread'

[MonkeyHead]

I'm going to be honest with you Monkey, I'm not sure what posts you are reporting... I mean the thread is moving pretty fast, but things don't seem personal to the point of censorship. Sure there are what I would think of as unsavory views, but that is kind of expected in a 'Progressive Discussion Thread'

Actually, looking back at it, yea, there is only really one statement that got to me. I think I am just finding it hard to understand why some people seem to be arguing in favour of opression.

[alexandertnt]

Tell us more about homosexual propaganda, please.

I am more interesting in this "genetic abnormality".

A lot of people seem to think it's some wonder ability that turns you into a great friend, intelligent person and the greatest parent ever.

No, they dont, this is a strawman. As I said, give some examples of people who are saying homosexuality is superior, but now you have to deomonstrate that "A lot" of people think like this.

[Max White]

Well I'm always up for camp fire stories, please, how are homosexuals a genetic abnormality? I'll get my marshmallows.

Although I would like to point out that lets say that scientists somehow proved that homosexuality occurred due to a mutation, I don't see how that really changes much. I have all sorts of mutations, as do all people. Doesn't inherently make us lesser beings. The survival of our species depends on mutations. Still should be a good story though...

[Leafsnail]

I have a feeling the answer will involve South Park

[10ebbor10]

Well I'm always up for camp fire stories, please, how are homosexuals a genetic abnormality? I'll get my marshmallows.

Although I would like to point out that lets say that scientists somehow proved that homosexuality occurred due to a mutation, I don't see how that really changes much. I have all sorts of mutations, as do all people. Doesn't inherently make us lesser beings. The survival of our species depends on mutations. Still should be a good story though...

Latest news I heard is that it's a pseudo genetical mutation. Rather than being a mutation itself, it's a genetic tag that's applied differently. Said tags are generally applied during pregnancy , or during the first life year.

Also, homosexuality has a benefit for quite a few species. It's unusually prevalent for something that reduces change of reproduction.

[LordSlowpoke]

how does a sport event have any, any correlation with bigots? there always were bigots and always will be bigots.

It implies that the international community supports their bigotry, as in 1936, thus strengthening the government.  We should not be actively helping to give them legitimacy.

what's with you and the hitler implications. come on. the government doesn't exactly need strengthening or additional legitimacy (since it can just do all the nice things you claim them to do - stuff the ballots, crush opponents with government spending, i won't dispute these simply because not even most russians have reliable evidence for these being a thing)

on that note, could you please tell me your opinons on the post loudwhispers made just a while ago since it seems you're not going to quote it, here it is for your viewing pleasure

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

Countries where homosexuality is legally punished by death: Maldives, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Somaliland, Nigeria, Mauritania, Sudan
Countries where homosexuality is cause for life imprisonment: Sierra Leone, Uganda, Tanzania, Guyana
Countries where homosexuality is cause for whipping: Malawi, Maldives, Malaysia
Countries where homosexuality is cause for imprisonment but not for life [though it may last for years]: Algeria, Libya, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, Togo, Cameroon, Burundi, Eritrea, Kenya, Uganda, Comoros, Mauritius, Seychelles, Malawi, Zambia, Western Sahara, Somaliland, Belize, Antigua & Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait, Oman, Palestinian Territories, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Tuvalu, Tonga, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia,  Brunei, Saudi Arabia.
Countries where free speech is crushed by disallowing the publication of any positive lgbt media: Russia, Lebanon, all of the above.
Countries people give a fuck about: Russia.
I guess it's just a case of people only really empathizing with whatever's in front of them, whatever's given to them. If you ask me, every Olympics should be held in Russia if you want to see it fall, the whole bloody thing's a waste of money that is in itself a perpetuation of human rights violations.

i added some emphasis, hope you don't mind

i didn't claim the government is siding with them, because it bloody well isn't, at least not more than it was previously (since that seems to be your point in this case). the law doesn't say "well normally you're forbidden to do this but if you feel like doing it to a homosexual go ahead"

Gay people are being beaten up on a regular basis.  The police are completely ignoring this.  Everyone knows it.

In response, the government passes a law to criminalize activism for gay rights (such as the right to not be beaten up), instead of, say, attempting to make sure that bigots are arrested.  That is very much siding with the bigots.

allow me to delve into my limited knowledge of how that stuff operates - people are going to get beaten regardless of their sexual orientation if a group decides they want to beat someone up, they just need a "reason" - ridiculous, flimsy, doesn't matter broke someone's nose

these are "gopniks" if my memory serves. i need a proper russian here, the russia-fu is slowly faltering on my part

also russia dislikes activism, activism killed the soviet union brought on the shitstorm of the 90s which is still in living memory and we do not want that again do we

oh and sure let's not get annoyed at this whole hitler thing it was all because of these silly jews, should have just left europe altogether since nobody accepted them there i like your thinking how about we make a country for lgbts and say "fuck it, we're done, segregation time" like they themselves did after the fact

I can only parse this paragraph as an attack on your own argument.  What are you trying to say?

oh nothing, just a misguided attempt of pointing out your comparing the reality of today to the reality of more than seventy years ago and bringing everything down to hitler hitler hitler holocaust come on you're better than this

[kingfisher1112]

-Leafsnail
1. Becuase there isn't heterosexuals running around with flags, having huge straight pride parades, commissioning pseudoscientific studies saying that heterosexuals are superior, and the like.
2. How about the fact that he went so far as to install webcams? A few discrepancies != rigging the entire election. And how come there have been only minority marches on this issue? That's right, majority support! Putin's popular for a reason. This is what the masses of Russia want. You can parrot on about treading on the minority, but in the end, the people of Russia want this law.
3. This isn't even worth talking about.

1. Preventing people " Playing up" homosexuality as more than it is: A genetic abnormality. A lot of people seem to think it's some wonder ability that turns you into a great friend, intelligent person and the greatest parent ever.
2. Why isn't it? That is how democracy works. Do you think it's fair for a minority to take away the rights of everybody? No? Then go protest anti-gun lobbies in the US.
3. Didn't the guy state in the article that nobody would be oppressed or anything similar?
4. Funnily enough, see 1.

1. Then how can you justify the Four Dutch tourists that were arrested under these laws, despite the fact that they weren't promoting the kind of propaganda you just described?
2. No! No it isn't! Democracy is meant to protect the voice of minorities, not enforce the tyranny of the majority. This is a really important pillar that the society you live in was built on.
3. Tourists. Dutch. Gay. Arrested. Explain.
4. Saying that sort of propaganda exists IS NOT proof that people are promoting that. On that logic I can prove spider man exists.

1. I've done some reading and they are about minors. The articles I'm finding on the Dutch tourists are all from biased sources. Basically, they are trying to stop interference only among minors. Basically, stopping the interference of people into young people's orientations. So yes, they are guilty of that.
2. Right. They still aren't going to have popular support, laws or not. If the minority can have every way, I.e, the 1% affecting the 99%'s wants, well then that isn't democracy. Democracy is the rule of the people. What the people want. When 2 different peoples come into direct opposition, well then, who wins? I'll give you a hint, the majority.
3. ^
4. I do not know what you are going on about max.

No, they dont, this is a strawman. As I said, give some examples of people who are saying homosexuality is superior, but now you have to deomonstrate that "A lot" of people think like this.

Quite a few people in Bay12 have previously posted about how women are incredibly interested in gay men on the point that they are gay men. From personal experience, I can back that up. Also, seriously, just google " Gay parents are better parents" and you'll likely come up with a wealth of responses.

Can I damn well post yet?

[Max White]

1. I've done some reading and they are about minors. The articles I'm finding on the Dutch tourists are all from biased sources. Basically, they are trying to stop interference only among minors. Basically, stopping the interference of people into young people's orientations. So yes, they are guilty of that.
2. Right. They still aren't going to have popular support, laws or not. If the minority can have every way, I.e, the 1% affecting the 99%'s wants, well then that isn't democracy. Democracy is the rule of the people. What the people want. When 2 different peoples come into direct opposition, well then, who wins? I'll give you a hint, the majority.
3. ^
4. I do not know what you are going on about max.

1. That doesn't make sense, you said yourself it was genetic, therefor how could people interfere with somebodies sexuality? No amount of 'propaganda' changes your genetics, right?
2. So might makes right? No, we care about people these days. Sometimes. It is nice when we do at least.
3. ^^
4. I am saying prove that homosexuals are spreading propaganda promoting homosexuality as superior. Prove this propaganda exists.

[kingfisher1112]

1. I've done some reading and they are about minors. The articles I'm finding on the Dutch tourists are all from biased sources. Basically, they are trying to stop interference only among minors. Basically, stopping the interference of people into young people's orientations. So yes, they are guilty of that.
2. Right. They still aren't going to have popular support, laws or not. If the minority can have every way, I.e, the 1% affecting the 99%'s wants, well then that isn't democracy. Democracy is the rule of the people. What the people want. When 2 different peoples come into direct opposition, well then, who wins? I'll give you a hint, the majority.
3. ^
4. I do not know what you are going on about max.

1. That doesn't make sense, you said yourself it was genetic, therefor how could people interfere with somebodies sexuality? No amount of 'propaganda' changes your genetics, right?
2. So might makes right? No, we care about people these days. Sometimes. It is nice when we do at least.
3. ^^
4. I am saying prove that homosexuals are spreading propaganda promoting homosexuality as superior. Prove this propaganda exists.

1. It's genetic, but a lot of things can be modified by environment.
2. So we are going to listen to every majority and the majority has no say? Alright then. All the people who post on bay12 under the name kingfisher1112 are oppressed! Screw you democracy, I deserve a palace!
3. ^
4. GOOGLE SEARCH. GOOGLE SEARCH!

[Max White]

1. It's genetic, but a lot of things can be modified by environment.
2. So we are going to listen to every majority and the majority has no say? Alright then. All the people who post on bay12 under the name kingfisher1112 are oppressed! Screw you democracy, I deserve a palace!
3. ^
4. GOOGLE SEARCH. GOOGLE SEARCH!

1. This is true. But it doesn't change the fact that providing support to young homosexuals isn't a gay conspiracy to convert the masses. But hey, lets assume it was. So what? Who cares? Do you have a problem with gays?
2. We are going to listen, defiantly. That is the point. Even when I don't like what you are saying, I will let you say it. Heck I will even fight for your right to say it. The majority still get their say, but it needs to be balanced.
3. >>>
4. Ok, go google search then. Come back when you have evidence of your claims. Off you go now!

[MonkeyHead]

Screaming GOOGLE SEARCH proves nothing. Find an article, or selection of articles that you believe backs up your claim so we can understand exactly what you mean. When I google search for "homosexual propaganda" all I get is news articles about the current Russian law, and Homophobic propaganda, with only a single return leading to an article criticising homsexual propaganda in the first 25 or so results but its clearly from some kind of American right wing extremist website devoted to attacking all LGBT issues, hardly balanced and unbiased.

[Leafsnail]

But he totally heard someone say it on Bay 12 once!  Also there was this one scientific study that showed that gay people are better parents, and this is propaganda because

what's with you and the hitler implications. come on. the government doesn't exactly need strengthening or additional legitimacy (since it can just do all the nice things you claim them to do - stuff the ballots, crush opponents with government spending, i won't dispute these simply because not even most russians have reliable evidence for these being a thing)

I don't see any real argument to respond to here.  What, once a dictatorship has seized power you may as well just support it because its position is rock solid?

on that note, could you please tell me your opinons on the post loudwhispers made just a while ago since it seems you're not going to quote it, here it is for your viewing pleasure

It's a deflection and not really worth addressing at all ("Well they're bad, but the fact that other people are worse means we should ignore that they're bad").  Apart from the bolded part which is just wrong - the UK Olympics certainly helped boost the government's flagging popularity, for instance.

allow me to delve into my limited knowledge of how that stuff operates - people are going to get beaten regardless of their sexual orientation if a group decides they want to beat someone up, they just need a "reason" - ridiculous, flimsy, doesn't matter broke someone's nose

Your knowledge is indeed limited if you don't think that homophobia is an actual thing.

also russia dislikes activism, activism killed the soviet union brought on the shitstorm of the 90s which is still in living memory and we do not want that again do we

What

oh nothing, just a misguided attempt of pointing out your comparing the reality of today to the reality of more than seventy years ago and bringing everything down to hitler hitler hitler holocaust come on you're better than this

You haven't provided any actual argumentation against the comparison, and in any case the comparison is part of the original discussion since Fry made it.  Thinking about it, it may be better to compare it to the Nazis' treatment of homosexuals - they started by cracking down on vocal gay rights groups in a pretty similar way.