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[PatriotSaint]

capitalism has millions of people being executed or put into camps because they are the underclass who don't have the economic power to negotiate a living wage.

The poor of America can be considered to be anywhere in the Middle-Class in Europe, and Upper-Class almost anywhere else. Even those in "poverty" often have TVs, microwaves, freezers, etc. etc. etc.

[Nadaka]

PatriotSaint: feudal nations were very much capitalist.

[scrdest]

capitalism has millions of people being executed or put into camps because they are the underclass who don't have the economic power to negotiate a living wage.

Executed? That's an interesting claim.

[PatriotSaint]

PatriotSaint: feudal nations were very much capitalist.

Explain.

Oh, and as to executions in the U.S. compared to Communist Cuba, for example:

A little over 10,000 people have been executed in the U.S. since the start of the nation

Dozens and dozens of thousands have been imprisoned as political dissidents and/or executed since the beginning of that nation, less than a century ago.

[PatriotSaint]

capitalism has millions of people being executed or put into camps because they are the underclass who don't have the economic power to negotiate a living wage.

Executed? That's an interesting claim.

Indeed.

[Angle]

1. Feudal nations weren't capitalist... Nor were they communist. Also, we are talking about today and tomorrow.

Ambition is human nature, and Communism in practice is a prime example of when it (human nature) is ignored an not accepted and accomodated.

I'm not saying that feudal nations were communist or capitalist, I'm saying they suppressed ambition in a lot of their population. This was a bad thing, but it does show that human nature is more complicated and plastic then you want to believe. I myself think that ambition should be accepted and accomodated, depending on what it is - you want to be a nobel prize wining scientist? Go for it! You want to prosper at the expense of others? That's not so cool. and I think we can all agree that the ambition to kill tons of people is completely unacceptable.

2. I might as well say Robin Hood stole from the king and he was a man, and a thief stole from the peasants and was a women. They were both thieves. Common thread - thieves

I might, yes. And I'd be right if I did. What's your point here, exactly?

[scrdest]

PatriotSaint: feudal nations were very much capitalist.

How so?

[GlyphGryph]

PatriotSaint: feudal nations were very much capitalist.

* GlyphGryph snorts

You can't be serious, can you?

[PatriotSaint]

1. Feudal nations weren't capitalist... Nor were they communist. Also, we are talking about today and tomorrow.

Ambition is human nature, and Communism in practice is a prime example of when it (human nature) is ignored an not accepted and accomodated.

I'm not saying that feudal nations were communist or capitalist, I'm saying they suppressed ambition in a lot of their population. This was a bad thing, but it does show that human nature is more complicated and plastic then you want to believe. I myself think that ambition should be accepted and accomodated, depending on what it is - you want to be a nobel prize wining scientist? Go for it! You want to prosper at the expense of others? That's not so cool. and I think we can all agree that the ambition to kill tons of people is completely unacceptable.

2. I might as well say Robin Hood stole from the king and he was a man, and a thief stole from the peasants and was a women. They were both thieves. Common thread - thieves

I might, yes. And I'd be right if I did. What's your point here, exactly?

1. I never said human nature was plastic. The exact opposite. It is what it always has been. My point was that Communism attempts to change it, because that is the only way Communism would ever work.

2. That it is irrelevant. Communism in practice (not in theory) is totalitarianism.

[Leafsnail]

The poor of America can be considered to be anywhere in the Middle-Class in Europe, and Upper-Class almost anywhere else. Even those in "poverty" often have TVs, microwaves, freezers, etc. etc. etc.

Before responding to PatriotSaint, please read this post.  Ask yourself: is it really worth expending effort on someone who is this wilfully ignorant?  I am pretty sure the answer is no.

[PatriotSaint]

The poor of America can be considered to be anywhere in the Middle-Class in Europe, and Upper-Class almost anywhere else. Even those in "poverty" often have TVs, microwaves, freezers, etc. etc. etc.

Before responding to PatriotSaint, please read this post.  Ask yourself: is it really worth expending effort on someone who is this wilfully ignorant?  I am pretty sure the answer is no.

This is a discussion, not a war of sermons.

Are you saying the above is not true?  I am not talking about the homeless, for which free beds in homeless shelters (that do not allow alcohol or drugs) number much greater.

[Leafsnail]

I don't think that "not true" is really a strong enough way of putting it.  If you replaced every single word in that post with the word "WRONG" in 50 foot red letters you'd have a more accurate description.

[PatriotSaint]

I don't think that "not true" is really a strong enough way of putting it.  If you replaced every single word in that post with the word "WRONG" in 50 foot red letters you'd have a more accurate description.

Ah. Please do explain how wrong I am.


P.S. Just wondering, is this how everybody reacts to people they don't agree with? On this forum, I mean. Yeesh, this is literally my second post talking to this guy, ever.

[Scoops Novel]

The poor of America can be considered to be anywhere in the Middle-Class in Europe, and Upper-Class almost anywhere else. Even those in "poverty" often have TVs, microwaves, freezers, etc. etc. etc.

Before responding to PatriotSaint, please read this post.  Ask yourself: is it really worth expending effort on someone who is this wilfully ignorant?  I am pretty sure the answer is no.

This is a discussion, not a war of sermons.

Are you saying the above is not true?  I am not talking about the homeless, for which free beds in homeless shelters (that do not allow alcohol or drugs) number much greater.

They wouldn't deny that the poor are better off in the west, but they dispute the "middle class in Europe" (some of whom's countries have welfare systems and free health care)  and especially "upper class" in the rest of the world bits. I remind you third world corrupt politicians still do well for themselves. Bear in mind this comes from something who would appreciate Bay12 bearing in mind their position in comparison to others, and is answering this on the off-chance it isn't a troll post and your english/proof reading needs some work. If you misunderstand anything i have said, i suggest you find out by other sources.

Your registration date does not fill me with confidence, combined with the known troll spammer on the boards.

[Nadaka]

PatriotSaint: feudal nations were very much capitalist.

* GlyphGryph snorts

You can't be serious, can you?

How can I not be serious?

I don't have time to go into details, but yes. Its a degenerate capitalist system where absolute power resides in those who acquired a monopoly on capital (the principal form of which was land held by "noble" families).