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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1287515 times)

kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5925 on: May 29, 2013, 12:57:04 pm »

There are a lot of concerns with such an idea, and the one I'd like to bring up is the fact that the guardian is no more likely to be good for the child than the parents are.
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

SalmonGod

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5926 on: May 29, 2013, 06:22:23 pm »

I know that if anything like this were tried in the U.S., I'd be scared out of my wits.  There would definitely be an agenda pushed by lobbies to look for any reason to ensure that kids are drugged and fed in certain ways, and there's no doubt in my mind it would be used to identify political dissent.
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lorb

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5927 on: May 29, 2013, 07:10:41 pm »

There are a lot of concerns with such an idea, and the one I'd like to bring up is the fact that the guardian is no more likely to be good for the child than the parents are.

Any sensible implementation of such an idea would require that the guardian be a trained person that has some kind of formal qualification, while anyone can have a kid.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5928 on: May 29, 2013, 07:16:37 pm »

It'd be easier and more practical to just require such certification for parents.

There's no practical benefit to having a 1:1 child to guardian ratio. If we specialize them, there'd be far more kids than guardians, so it'd be more like 1:10 or 1:100, which would have the same problems that child services have today. If we don't specialize them, then they're no better than parents are.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

misko27

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5929 on: May 29, 2013, 07:31:54 pm »

It'd be easier and more practical to just require such certification for parents.

There's no practical benefit to having a 1:1 child to guardian ratio. If we specialize them, there'd be far more kids than guardians, so it'd be more like 1:10 or 1:100, which would have the same problems that child services have today. If we don't specialize them, then they're no better than parents are.
Difficulty here is parents are made from any one who can have sex, and it stands to reason many people will pass through the holes in such a system if it was  weak(or god forbid voluntary), or be a unreasonable amount of over-reach if it wasn't. Plus accidents happen, and then what? Should we just take a child away from any non-certified parent? That sounds pretty Orwellian, and would inspire mass rage.


Seems way too likely to result in a either useless or extreme system.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5930 on: May 29, 2013, 07:42:06 pm »

I do think there ought to be more things for which Child Services should be called in for, at least smarter things. Giving your baby soda pop in a baby bottle, for example...
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5931 on: May 29, 2013, 07:43:11 pm »

I do think there ought to be more things for which Child Services should be called in for, at least smarter things. Giving your baby soda pop in a baby bottle, for example...
How despicable, not even fried soda?

Sirus

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5932 on: May 29, 2013, 07:43:39 pm »

I do think there ought to be more things for which Child Services should be called in for, at least smarter things. Giving your baby soda pop in a baby bottle, for example...
...I fail to see the harm O_o
Then again, I'm probably not good parenting material.
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misko27

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5933 on: May 29, 2013, 07:46:47 pm »

I am inclined to disagree. Frankly, it tends to lead to fewer people actually being taken away from bad situations as making regular people's lives harder.


I may be a bit biased though...
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kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5934 on: May 29, 2013, 08:43:45 pm »

Seems way too likely to result in a either useless or extreme system.
Yup. That's pretty much the lesson to be learned from this topic.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Devling

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5935 on: May 29, 2013, 09:06:57 pm »

Seems way too likely to result in a either useless or extreme system.
Yup. That's pretty much my opinion on the topic.
FTFY
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kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5936 on: May 29, 2013, 09:12:59 pm »

What's your opinion, then?
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Devling

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5937 on: May 29, 2013, 09:18:49 pm »

Sounds probably good on paper, will probably not be good in real life.
It would add a bunch of bureaucracy, cost money, and hurt people who don't abuse their kids then actually catch people who do.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5938 on: May 29, 2013, 09:21:58 pm »

That doesn't seem to disagree with anything I said :X
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Devling

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #5939 on: May 29, 2013, 09:31:21 pm »

Calling it a lesson seemed a little conceited. Like the conclusion was obvious or something.
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