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[Vector]

Do people turn mean because they're helpless?

Interesting idea.  What do you guys think?

[Frumple]

Weird thing at the end of the article (Can it not be both?), but other than that... hell, hell if I know. From what I've seen, we do try to excuse our inability to help others. It's... I'unno, one of those deeply hypocritical aspects of most societies I'm familiar with, where, especially when young, we're taught that helping others and loving one's neighbor and etc., and so forth, and so on is all important and good and crap, but apparently when we hit the point that it turns out that, hey, it can be pretty hard to do that shit so we start trying to figure out ways to not. And then we notice the methods other people around us (in our peer group, or elders) are excusing betraying those early lessons and just kinda'... join in. S'very natural.

Devaluing others is just one of those methods, I guess? If you can't or don't want to help someone who needs help, despite being taught that you ought to, well, obviously the problem must be in the one that needs help, right? You, yourself, can't be a bad person, after all... right? If you were willfully refusing to or unable to figure out a way to do the right thing, then you'd be a bad or incapable person, but you're not, so there must be something about them that justifies not helping. Even if there isn't. And so it goes. Lot of times it seems like it's not even explicit like that, just a kinda' subconscious heuristic people run certain problems they encounter through. "The fault must not lie with me."

But yeah, people in desperate straights turning nasty is... pretty standard fare. For whatever reason, that's pretty normal psychology for us monkeys. Awareness of the behavior is the first step towards avoiding it.

[SalmonGod]

Do people turn mean because they're helpless?

Interesting idea.  What do you guys think?

Kinda like Frumple says, I think there is a lot of truth to it, but it's not the whole picture.

I think it's all about self-respect.  The one thing I have definitely learned about human psychology in my 30 years is that it's capable of incredible contortions for the sake of self-respect, which I consider to be a more basic human need than even material survival.  People can lie in incredible ways to themselves about their own nature and the nature of others if it allows them to feel good about themselves.  Everything else seems to be an extension of this, including the observations of Just World Theory.

The only thing I don't understand is how it's so easy to lie to oneself.  I try to claw out the roots of my own dishonesties whenever I can, but of course it would be lying to myself to believe that I'm completely successful.

[FearfulJesuit]

I think it's also the case that humans are, well, contradictory creatures, very contradictory creatures. I grew up in the rural South, but most of my best friends are urban coastal liberal types, and often ask "So...why are people in the Heartland so good and decent...except to gays and blacks and at the voting booth?" The short answer is that they're being dishonest, but I don't think that's the whole story; rather, the human psyche is capable of extreme inconsistencies. It's not necessarily a case of them just being good but ignorant, although I think much more can be chalked up to ignorance than one would think. Inconsistency is the base state of the human psyche.

And that being said, we are all inconsistent, and in some ways it's humanity's great but essential flaw. As Whitman wrote: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am vast; I contain multitudes."

[SalmonGod]

Doesn't explain the cause of inconsistency, though.  Such a quality existing on its own for no reason would be an easy problem to address with mere awareness.  People wouldn't bother to defend their inconsistencies if there were no reason for them.

In the case of prejudices such as racism, I once again see it as being about reinforcing self-respect by defining those different from oneself as being less genuinely human.  It allows for victimization of others for one's own benefit (or complacency) without loss of self-respect, and for generally thinking of oneself as better by comparison.  I don't think it's ignorance.  It's quite plain that human beings are human beings, period.  You can compare any two people on the planet, and they'll all be more alike than different.  Those differences are magnified by choice, even if a subconscious one.  It's just too psychologically convenient to do so.

[Descan]

This might have been said, but I'm pretty sure that racism and such exist because even the lowest guy on the totem pole can still say "At least I'm not black/white/gay/asian/a woman/a man." And without those being bad things, it doesn't really make sense for them to derive pride from it. So they make-up (or rather, use the cultural idea) that those types of people are lesser.

Without being "Better" than the blacks/the jews/the gays/women/whatever, they have nothing.

Doesn't really explain racism and such in the higher ranks, but I don't think there's a silver-bullet "This is Why for Everyone". There rarely is.

[kaijyuu]

IMO it's the same psychologically as bullying is. Step on someone else to bring yourself up by comparison. It's easier than self improvement.

[SalmonGod]

IMO it's the same psychologically as bullying is. Step on someone else to bring yourself up by comparison. It's easier than self improvement.

Victim-blaming is also cleaner and with more varied benefits.  You're not responsible for making the victim, you absolve yourself from responsibility to help, and you make it clear that you're better than the victim, or else you would be one too.

[Scoops Novel]

In the higher ranks, at least since the (counter) idea became widespread, i usually consider racism to be either a useful tool or a sign that they're the subject of manipulation.

[Scoops Novel]

As for the "it's not my fault", rationalization seems to be the usual route. I need this, it's not hurting anyone, it's good for society, etc. These boards show many examples. Edit: needlessly bitter remark No x, filed under sleep deprived.

[SalmonGod]

Rich people hiring handicapped tour guides so they can cut in line at Disney World.

[Dutchling]

Rich people hiring handicapped tour guides so they can cut in line at Disney World.

That's both brilliant and disgusting.

mostly disgusting though.

[Leafsnail]

“My daughter waited one minute to get on ‘It’s a Small World’ — the other kids had to wait 2 1/2 hours,” crowed one mom, who hired a disabled guide through Dream Tours Florida.

This'll be the statement that sparks the revolution, mark my words.

[SalmonGod]

On the one hand, this kind of thing strikes pretty fucking deep at any notion of human dignity.

On the other hand, there's a small part of me that thinks... good for the disabled person that's taking money from both rich patrons and a megacorp at the same time?

[Nadaka]

Partially related to the rage thread topic, but I'll post it here instead...

http://www.copblock.org/27067/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-you/